Post Info TOPIC: Hondalite wins at Wittiterin/Overheating Scoobie!


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Hondalite wins at Wittiterin/Overheating Scoobie!


Phil Page / Greg Soares won outright and prolite class at Wittiterin. Placed 5/6
after a flat tyre on Sauturday.

-- Edited by Wolf at 14:49, 2007-07-18

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RE: Hondalite wins at Wittiterin


too bad we droped a heat

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Hornet, does that mean a subaru could have won?
Will the honda's domination be short lived?

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The werewolf was in with spiz wasnt he?

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Sorry, did'nt check the entry list, thought lia's super1650 scoobie must have been running!
But....the hondas domination WILL be short lived!!!

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Anthony was with the Spiz

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jones off road wrote:


But....the hondas domination WILL be short lived!!!



But you agree  that the hondas are dominant! How did the suby go at Pines. I noticed you were DNF which is unfortunate for testing a new setup.Any first impressions ?

Chris

 



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O.K.
I guess my tail is between my legs!
I love the scoobie engine, but cant get it to run cool. The rest of the car is fine. DNF was voluntary so I wouldnt hurt the engine. (plus the track was rough)
I got to do a 3 car start with a VQ35 nissan and a 3.5 mitsu with manual boxes,(mine is 3sp auto), I think it would have held its own with them, but the driver (me), decided to do some circle work across the paddock and couldnt catch up again!
I really need some ideas to fix the overheating. I have tried--big PWR radiator, thermostat, no thermostat, drilled thermostat, restictor plate, trimmed timing back, richened fuel mixtures, ducting air, running no spare tyre (behind radiator), good thermo fans...what else can I do?

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Hi Steve.

As we were discussing on the weekend, maybe you can have a look at the water pump to check that it is working properly?  With everything else that you have done, it is the only thing that I can think of.  I guess, depending on the revs that it is doing, could it be cavitating if it is at high revs, or alternatively, if it isn't spinning quick enough, maybe it isn't getting enough flow?  Or, maybe the pump is just not working properly? 

Like I said, after everything that you have already done, I can't think of anything else it could be. 


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Does it overheat in tight/low speed parts of the track or when it is running straight/high speed ?

How much timing/AFR?

Chris


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If its not tune (Dick Allport told us he used to back off and go again every once in a while to give the engine a burst of fuel from the acc pump to keep it cool on long straights) or the pump (you could try an external electric pump?) might it be air pockets in the water system? Paul fixed his overheating by running a small tank to bleed air out of the system hight points). Do you run an oil cooler? What time is flight QF508 out of sydney? How much is a dollars worth of chips?

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O/heats mainly when revving hard, straights or tight doesnt matter. Will cool down with thermo fans at idle or backed off down a straight.
I fitted an afr guage in the dash, it runs about 12:1 most of the time. Timing is hard to tell, but I have trimmed the curve back 15% in the motec (still didnt help) and richened up 10% fuel curve.
It does not blow out or use water or pressurise the system, all the water remains in the system.

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jonesy
  id go with motown on this one and fit a electric pump and the tank to bleed air out of the system furious

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   up yours baby

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Hi Steve, remember that in a Subaru engine and most modern engines with the thermostat in the lower (inlet) hose and the activating part of the thermostat is on the engine side of the inlet, therefore it needs a by-pass hose hooked up otherwise the cooler water from an efficient radiator will tend to close the thermostat and the water in the top of the block will boil causing air pockets. what will happen is that your fans will stay on because the engine is hot but for a closed t/stat the cool water can't get into the engine, this happened to me. I now run a restricted by-pass (in the Subaru car the by-pass is restricted by the heater core), not enough restricion & the water will circulate to easily & bypass the radiator. Also you may try getting an in-line thermostat & put it in the top hose, still with a restricted bypass system

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Try having a look at this link,

http://www.race-dezert.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31234

It has some good ideas for sorting your problem.

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260 - we found a similar thing with the lexus engine, but we blocked it completely.  Will this affect cooling with out car you think?

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Wayne,
Your idea would be correct, but I have run a thermostat with and without bypass already. Also I have run no thermostat, jammed open thermostat, and drilled holes around outside of thermostat.
I never beleived in cavitating waterpumps before (causing overheating I mean), but it looks like I will try an electric wpump to supplement original. Apparently in circuit racing etc it is a known problem.
Thanks for the link blurredvision...I will check it out!

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Wolf,
I blocked every hose with my lexus engine, but ran a modified thermostat (basically a restrictor), It ran fine with the cooling system that the scoobie is using.

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cheers jones. we replaced the thermostat but drilled a 5mm hole through the top of it to stop air locks when filling, same as we did with the 4ag's.

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When we first ran the 20 valve in our car (we were a very early convert, only a few were in use at that stage in buggies), we did a lot of reading on them and saw that a number of people who were transplanting these engines into other vehicles were having a lot of overheating issues.  THere was a lot of talk about bleeding the cooling system, etc.  After a lot more reading we discovered that those people who were having the problems had connected the colling system the opposite way to that which Toyota designed.  Due to the placement of the thermostat in the engine, people basically connected the hoses the wrong way around, and this was causing a lot of the problems.

Maybe, with the Subaru engine it could be a similar problem??  Could it be that Subaru meant to have the hot collant exiting the engine where you have the cooler coolant entering?  Sounds dumb I know, but just a thought...

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1uz is the same as well.

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its not dumb,
but my hoses are correct....I think!

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RE: Hondalite wins at Wittiterin/Overheating Scoobie!


I was going to ask the same question as trekka but didn't want to insult you Steve, but I have seen a buggy with the bottom hose coming from the top of the radiator. He also was having cooling probs ,. Thought that because the thermostat was down low that the water must circulate the other way.

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Vern Crawford from Kadco runs a twin turbo 6cyl subi and has a lot of experience with these motors, try giving him a call he is always willing to help you never no he might have a solution.
Contact Vern on 0747550000

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Thanks Boss,
Got on to Vern, Guess what?....Same trouble as myself, same symptoms, and problem still not solved!
Any other ideas....anybody?

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I asked Jeeves and found out that the 3.3 used in the svx had a tendancy to overheat the gearboxes, but cant find anything common about an overheating engine...

Back to tune, more fuel at high revs? Bad water flow? Popped a head gasket maybe?

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Wolf may be on something, I mean onto something. I've seen many EJ series Subaru engines now with what can only be desribed as a microscopic head gasket leak which will not show up even with a cylinder leakage test. They only cause a problem under heat & load like a hard run up through Kangaroo Valley or similar. If you have a look at the deck design you can see that it is probable that there is movement of the cylinder top surface (due to the only supports being 180 degrees apart) in relation to the surface of the head & therefore the head gasket. This tends to "peel" off  the very fine layer of teflon like sealing material on the head gasket & it will not cause a problem in normal gentle driving. I have found that the new head gaskets (genuine) seem to be a slightly different material & have never had one re-offend, with heads machined of course. I also go slightly more heavy handed on the tensioning proceedure. Pretty deep stuff huh. but it may be worth a look. 

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Have a look at the airflow thru the car. Did it have a heating problem on the dyno ?

Chris

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i blocked all by pass pipes and holes in top manfold and ran no thermostat and no restritor bottom hose to bottom radiator on the ej1600 and the ej 2200 with no promlem temp ran at 110 120 at the most ! ant

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Headgasket may be possible, but definitely no evidence of this, plus system is not pressurising and blowing out coolant. But I am still thinking of fitting spare engine to be sure.
Dont think airflow is the problem as the existing system worked well well with the toyota engine, and since then I have changed to a PWR radiator, and added ducting for airflow. No it didnt overheat on the dyno.
This weekend I am fitting an electric waterpump in addition to the original, hope this works.

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