OVER TAKING

MARTIN OFF ROAD · Forum Junkie

OVER TAKING

Webmaster · Rehab Dropout...

I'll never forget when I first started racing, Bob Stansfield taught me the 222 passing method, 2 toots, 2 taps, 2 tones. Lol

simpson · Rehab Dropout...

Can of worms this one.
Swan some people may need a tap but how far do you go. The cars i have most trouble with are usualy single seaters both buggys and trucks. So are incar reversing cameras the answer for those cars.

I would like at drivers briefing the C.R.O.W to really get into everyone about watching your mirrors nothing worse than busting your arse to improve your lap times to
then get stuck behind someone for half a lap. It happend to me a couple of times on the weekend but won't be the first or last time it happens and thanks to the cars that do pull over .
We are all competertive or we woudn't be there so is that what drives some people to not pull over as i said can of worms.

-- Edited by simpson on Tuesday 30th of August 2011 10:14:25 AM

Dusteater · In rehab

A little tap works well in most situations although with permenant forward facing lights it shouldn't be necessary providing the crew watch their mirrors. Sadly there are those who abuse the taps and turn it into ram raiding. A couple of examples of that at Milbrodale. One car had its rear bar work pushed into the motor and the motor/transmission pushed forward in the car. Totally unnecessary. Why drivers insist on driving faster than their forward vision allows in dusty conditions is beyond me. Must be those sheep stations they are racing for. Remember intentional hitting of another race car is illegal no matter how hard. I believe the Stewards have a role to play here. They need to come down harder on proven cases of severe shunting, not a slap on the wrist.

Jet109 · Forum Addict

The Painful one is when your still stuck behind someone after a corner, they do need to turn heads and have a look.
Personally I'm not keen on "tapping" unless it becomes utterly necessary.
people have seen us right behind them and got on the gas harder rather than pulling over, Purhaps they don't agree that the car up there arse is faster than them.
usually ending in a risky over taking move when they break early.
Perhaps if we have Incar footage of people holding up we should post it in a thread? Kind of name and shame, as there have been many times
Sure some times it's accidental and you don't see the car there, but it would sure as hell make sure people put more effort into at least trying to.

jones off road · Rehab Dropout...

I found all the cars I caught a Milbrodale were excellent in pulling over...but there has been very many incidents where other cars that I have caught, and have definately seen me, refuse to pull over.

I feel in that instance then they deserve a tap, and if they get some damage that is their fault for not playing by the rules.

In all my years of racing, and the stupid changes that have been made to the sport, the absolute worst thing that can happen is people not letting you past. That frustration can drive you to do all sorts of silly things, and the fact is if the person in front is not letting you go, then no matter what happens, they are to blame for any following consequences.

Unfortunately it appears that the faster car being held-up seems to always cop the penalties, and the slower driver in front gets all the benefits (no dust, no penalties, faster times).......guess that answers the question really, just dont let anyone past!

goanna · Forum Junkie

I can't race with most buggys, so im always at my nav to be watching, i pulled over quite a few times at milbrodale and lost a few seconds waiting but new i was being caught and i was in a spot i could stop. And i appreciated when people gave me a wave!

Dusteater · In rehab

I guess the good news is out of the hundreds or even thousands of passing situations that occur around Aust in our sport each year very few end up in disaster. At Milbrodale almost all competitors reported that slower cars got out of the way as soon as they could. It seems that its only a few idiots who make trouble. Name and shame could be interesting but could cause more off track dramas. The simple thing is report all shunting and make sure you note which car it is.

jones off road · Rehab Dropout...

I dont beleive the person shunting is the problem, its the person in front who caused the shunting that needs to be reported!

Dusteater · In rehab

Then both should report each other. It does work both ways as Jonesy says. A little cooperation between competitors on the track would go along way and make this discussion unnecessary

simpson · Rehab Dropout...

Steve this happens at other tracks as well but the MMC event is a bit different because they get a lot of cars out there without a big gap between them
and thats the way it is when you have 80 cars at this meeting. Better education might help or rubber front crash bars. I personaly wouldn't tap someone because with my luck my car would come off second best.

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

We had no probs on the weekend. :) and we spent a long time with the siren on on Sunday morning.

Last year though.... I have to admit to being pulled up by the clerk of course in the pits for being 'overlly agressive' at another competitor who held us up for more than half a lap. Unfortunatly there was a car in between us who was also being held up with siren blaring so no possible chance to nudge...

It astounded me that he couldnt see or hear 2 cars right behind him for so long!

Dusteater · In rehab

simpson wrote:
Steve this happens at other tracks as well but the MMC event is a bit different because they get a lot of cars out there without a big gap between them
and thats the way it is when you have 80 cars at this meeting. Better education might help or rubber front crash bars. I personaly wouldn't tap someone because with my luck my car would come off second best.

Thats true Garry but I guess thats part of the appeal of MMC. Education? Unless they are rookies they should know by now. Every Event Director I have seen give a Competitors Briefing in the last 5 years or so has specifically mentioned passing, holding up and shunting inc MMC. Sadly some compeitors dont have the same appreciation for their machinery that you do.

MARTIN OFF ROAD · Forum Junkie

Ok in the penalties it said deliberate intererence with or impeding other competitors,a minimun of one (1) minute at the stawwards discrectrion.

tine · Rehab Dropout...

its not that hard to remember to turn your head,some people just have really bad attitudes,then when you tap them the attitude gets worse,loosing battle i think,all part of the sport

ARB TIPPING CHAMPION 2013

Why can't we give recovery crews blue flags to wave if they see a car coming with someone behind them with the horn on, then the car in front can't say they didn't know and then if they don't pull over give them a penalty. They tell you in the drivers brief that "SHUNTING WILL NOT BE TOLARATED" and my view is i don't want someone hitting my car and i won't hit other peoples cars, its just a matter of respect. Our cars are worth to much to be playing demolition derby with them.

just my

Dusteater · In rehab

2204 wrote:
Why can't we give recovery crews blue flags to wave if they see a car coming with someone behind them with the horn on, then the car in front can't say they didn't know and then if they don't pull over give them a penalty.
just my

Now thats not a bad idea

lada736 · Newbie

Just remember some recovery people only do one race a year a blue flag in the wrong hands could be just as bad. If you look
at buddys viedo 4 chassing 28 he did not catch him but an inexperanced person waving flag at 28 would have been wrong.
I have done recovery for 10/11 years State/ Nat. Now a driver in a slow car and have 5 mirrors .I spent more time getting out of
cars road at Milbrodale and still had fun and that watt its all about is not it

simpson · Rehab Dropout...

The blue flag idea would work at Milbrodale because of the high number of flag marshals around the track. This is also a safety issue you would be taking less risks while overtaking. Ask me i have a stuffed rear rim and tyre chasing a class 2 through the dust for way to long.

I pulled over a number of times for faster cars and i don't see why people have to make it so hard. Do half of them know the rules we race under.

How hard is it to have a look at the starting grid behind you and think oh shit some of these cars might catch me or that the leaders will catch me . So yeah its a good idea.

jones off road · Rehab Dropout...

I dont like the idea of a flag marshall having that responsibility, way too many mistakes could occur! How do they know who took off the line together, or maybe you just got past that car?

Its simple, no-one has the excuse they did not see you, if they use that they are deliberately cheating!
If they know your there, and dont pull over, they are even more deliberately cheating!
Same penalties should apply as short cutting, or jumping the start....... possible exclusion?

If those 'cheats' holding others up played by the rules, then shunting would not exist!

simpson · Rehab Dropout...

Jones if your in the car holding another up and the flag marshall is waiving a flag at you and it is common sense that your going to be reported. Then guess what you will pull over.

If you started with someone on the same line that doesn't know the rules then you don't have a problem.

And if you have to front an official you would think twice about it. Your right a penalty should apply.

jones off road · Rehab Dropout...

Jones if your in the car holding another up and the flag marshall is waiving a flag at you and it is common sense that your going to be reported. Then guess what you will pull over.

What I mean is if I am in front of the car I started beside, the flag marshall might mistakingly report me even though I dont need to pull over. (just an example of many possible problems with incorrect flag marshalling)

When you think about it, its only a very small (minded) minority that refuse to pull over, I dont think any changes need to be made.
What needs to happen is that reported incidences need to be acted upon correctly to punish that minority!

simpson · Rehab Dropout...

I guess if you take your incar footage up to the event director then they might get punished but that dosen't help you with the lost time does it.

So were back to giving someone a tap? confuse

Dusteater · In rehab

jones off road wrote:
Jones if your in the car holding another up and the flag marshall is waiving a flag at you and it is common sense that your going to be reported. Then guess what you will pull over.

What I mean is if I am in front of the car I started beside, the flag marshall might mistakingly report me even though I dont need to pull over. (just an example of many possible problems with incorrect flag marshalling)

If you are reported by a flag marshall for not yielding to a blue flag but you started next to the car in question, you would not have a problem with the Stewards as the event organisers would be able to show you started next to the car in question. If you didnt start next to them you're busted.

ARB TIPPING CHAMPION 2013

jones off road wrote:

What I mean is if I am in front of the car I started beside, the flag marshall might mistakingly report me even though I dont need to pull over. (just an example of many possible problems with incorrect flag marshalling)

Jonesy, i was meaning only show the flag if the car behind has the horn on, at milbrodale watching we could hear cars coming with the horn on even if the car in front couldn't. Besides that it could just be a flag to say "HAVE A LOOK BEHIND YOU". Also could it be that some people can't tell the difference between the cars they started with and the ones that started behind them confuse

At the end of the day do we really want to damage cars (yours and others) just to win a $5 trophy?

-- Edited by 2204 on Friday 2nd of September 2011 08:27:45 AM

Dusteater · In rehab

2204 wrote:
jones off road wrote:

What I mean is if I am in front of the car I started beside, the flag marshall might mistakingly report me even though I dont need to pull over. (just an example of many possible problems with incorrect flag marshalling)

Jonesy, i was meaning only show the flag if the car behind has the horn on, at milbrodale watching we could hear cars coming with the horn on even if the car in front couldn't. Besides that it could just be a flag to say "HAVE A LOOK BEHIND YOU". Also could it be that some people can't tell the difference between the cars they started with and the ones that started behind them
At the end of the day do we really want to damage cars (yours and others) just to win a $5 trophy?

-- Edited by 2204 on Friday 2nd of September 2011 08:27:45 AM

Another good idea. I'll bring it up at a SORRA meeting so the club can look at it for club days initially.

MARTIN OFF ROAD · Forum Junkie

Anyway if i am close to i car in front of me and i have been behind for i long time i will give them a rub to let them know i am there.

tine · Rehab Dropout...

i can see the sign writing on the car now "PUNTER SWAN"

jones off road · Rehab Dropout...

MARTIN OFF ROAD wrote:
Anyway if i am close to i car in front of me and i have been behind for i long time i will give them a rub to let them know i am there.

Got to agree, if the are CHEATING by holding you up, then they deserve it!

Blacky · In rehab

Having read all above and understanding the frustration people feel at slower drivers, I will say this, sometimes it is hard to see cars behind you because of dust, trees etc and we always try to get out of the way as soon as we can but it is not always possible to instantly because of track conditions etc. Lots of drivers thank us for getting out of their way so quick. We are racing for a $10 trophy. Some of us dont have the money to be as fast as others and in this sport as all motorsport it comes down to how much money you have as to how fast you are.

I will say this: if my race weekend is ended or repairs to the buggy cost us because of some hero whos dad has lots of money or someone who's small dick makes them think that they are tough by ramming us I will take the appropriate course of action by taking my concerns to the event officials for resolution

-- Edited by Blacky on Saturday 10th of September 2011 07:01:38 PM

-- Edited by Blacky on Saturday 10th of September 2011 07:04:12 PM

-- Edited by Blacky on Saturday 10th of September 2011 07:18:36 PM

-- Edited by webmaster on Monday 12th of September 2011 02:33:39 PM