What do you think. is there room for 1650 to 2500cc cars. just think all those older SR20-3SGE etc. cars have a chance to be competitive and maybe those imported class 10 Ecotec's could come out as they are. New generation Mazda6,Camry 2.5's Lancer 2.4s would open up a whole new bunch of engine options. Maybe even include 1650 single seat in here as well.
I think we have enough classes atm, but new idea's are all good for the sport. If you look at the speeds between 2litre prolites and 3.5litre prolites it very minimal and the speed difference to super1650 is also very minimal here in nsw anywayz. But alot of that has to do with the tighter circuts in the nsw rounds compared to national rounds,where circuts seem to be high speed and open country. There is alot of engine options around 2.5litre bracket and a class for them would be well supported i'm sure.But my opinion is that there's enough classes for everyone to build a buggy and race in class that already exists. just my 2 cents.
your probably right about the number of classes. just there has been a decline in sportsmans at national level and super 1650 is very strong at state level across the country but also a bit light at nationals. but maybe this would be good at stae level and run within prolites for older cars
agree with you fullscale , there are no high out put 1600cc engine being currantly made by manufactures the old 20 valve engines are over 15 years old , are getting much harder to get , and costing much more , the other competive option is the SR 16 , but there harder to get and more costly again , also both these engine were never sold here in OZ , so getting parts for them is more costly and time consuming , ( ever tried to get 20 valve , valve stem seals ?) as none of the parts store list anything for them !!!!
the SR 20 , 3SGE , engines are still regularly available as they were sold here , all engine parts are listed and easierly sourced , these a lot more perfomance parts available , and at would make buying a US class 10 more viable if the engine didn't have to be changed ,
perhapes the one thing i would sugest is to keep this super lite class a 4 cyl class , and pro lite a 6 cyl class ,
cobra , the speed differances in the WA state rounds are much higher , as a lot of the tracks here reward HP more then driver skill ,
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were we're goin we dont need roads.
it's not the speed of life that scares me, it's the sudden stop at the end ,
I love the idea but most state races in Vic combine classes as it is rare to have a least three in each class other than Sea Lake. I have an old school prolite with a SR20 and don't have a hope against the 3.5's on longer tracks and even less chance against the Hyabusa powered single seat nutters on the tight tracks. It's like running a 100m race and hoping everyone else will break a leg. It is my first buggy so no complaining really as it still blows my hair back.
I have always wondered why they don't allow up to 2l with turbos to be in prolites or even 1.3l with turbos. There seems to be a few newer cars coming out with 1.3 so maybe it would give a few more options, but I guess that would only open up the prolites and not the 1650.
you could run super lites in prolite and alloacate the finishing points gained per race. ie first 3 were prolites and the next 2 cars was a super lite they would be awarded those point towards the title. No need to race them seperatley just have the guy's in superlite collect there own points when the numbers aren't there. run as there own class when the numbers are right. Just another thought-no lower cc limit in super 1650
I agree FULLSCALE as it would make my buggy a bit more competitive and it would give some more flexibility to guys building or repowering a buggy. My only big drama is the people who organise the events and sponsors would cringe at another set of trophies and prises. I like the idea of 4cyl prolite class and a 6cyl class from LIAbility. I would like to see it trialed at club or even state level for a year. Guarantee I will be in it. I had to choose between speedway and off-road when I wanted to get back into racing and chose off-road because of heaps of reasons but the two big ones were a lot less aggression (even though some goose hit me at Bagshot and caused me to roll at 140kph) and the choice of different classes, which gave me a heap of choices without dealing with the stupid standard engine rules.
i don't run in any of these classes but it just seems to me that while the top line cars and drivers are great to watch in the top pro lites we don't have a great introdution level for people to buy older cars and race. For the want of a better name "b"grade. A 2l>2.5 would probably still work with a combi or renault gearbox, even Beam front ends. Idon't want to see a classic car class but there are plenty of 90's cars that used to be, what is now, pro buggies that could still be out there. It was only 2005 that a SR20 MK4 Southern cross won outright at Waikerie(dame quick track). that car is still around but not within a bulls roar of a new generation prolite
Another Class is not a good idea as the sport is fragmented enough already. If the problem is the lack of 1600cc engines then possibly drop Super 1650 and create Superlite for engines up to 2 litres. Whilst I agree that 4AGE 20valve engines are getting old and hard/expensive to get parts for I'm not yet convinced that there is a lack of current engines available today for Super1650.
but i still belive super 1650 should have a cappacity increase to 2.5 L and perhaps sportsman increased to 1650 cc , hell most of them guys have more HP than a std 20valve ,
this gives the guys that dont want to change there 1600 a class , the 1300 guys can still run in the same class , ( i belive there's only a hand full across the country these days and yes NSW has the most )
talking to a few fellow super 1650 guys in WA and NSW , most aggred on the idea of a cappacity increase and the others would increase the No's in sportsman , perhaps making it a national class once again
when the pro lite class was brought out a few people said it wouldn't work ect ect , but it's working quite well ,
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were we're goin we dont need roads.
it's not the speed of life that scares me, it's the sudden stop at the end ,
i know of a few chassis bought from the states that had 2.4 motors in them that were sold here minus motor. it would be good to align a little bit as we seem use so much stuff from there.
with the trend in car manufacturing to fuel efficent motors and enviroment stuff you would be going to find a 2.5 motor in current production that puts out the same kw's as a SR16 or Silvertop. most 1.6's these bays are lucky to get 95kw. most 2.4's are only in the 120's. there are a couple of exceptions but in all classes you tend to get a dominant motor anyhow. even the VQ35 is about to be superseded at manufacturing level
Maybe we should look at an "eco" class similar to what the rally boys have done? Small capacity turbo diesel engines. I know there were only a couple of cars out there last year but with so many manufacturers headfing this way the engines will be readily available, plus some of these cars such as the TDI golf seem to hook along well.
there are a few problems with a diesel buggy class: they are inherently heavy engines because of the huge bottom ends they have. A super 1650 frame would not cope. they dont rev a lot for the horsepower they make, that means huge amounts of torque which requires expensive gearboxes. 550-600Nm from the toyota and isuzu 3 litres with tuning, fuel system work and a turbo change. They are *very* expensive once you start rebuilding them for performance. I'd tell you how expensive but my wife might read this. Many of the principles on how to make them go fast are counterintuitive if you are used to petrols. This will put people off.
On the plus side: A front engine rear drive setup would keep costs down, maybe 2wd ute. You could run it with similar rules to Production 4wd to keep it cheap once numbers are up, introduce the class by lumping them in with performance 2wd to begin with. Nissan, Holden/Isuzu and Toyota all have a 3 litre turbo diesel ute and they are getting common and affordable. (Volkswagen diesels are neither) They are seen as environmentally friendly these days. Tuned correctly they do not smoke. the fuel is much, much safer to handle. Biodiesel is an option if you want to appear "green", however performance is pretty poor and so is quality, it kills common rail systems regularly.
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Rebuilding the old Sootchucker.
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