In my opinion there seems to be a major problem with how the AORC point score system works. It appears what they do is disregard any time factors and purely add together your position points in each section without awarding points for the overall finishing position. After round 1 at Sealake for Prolite class the points do not follow the finishing positions.
Finishing order in Prolite was
Foster, McClelland, R.Cowie, Fehlhaber, Ryan, Erceg, W. Cowie, Martin, Marshall,
The points order is
W. Cowie, Foster, McClelland, Erceg, R. Cowie, Fehlhaber, Owen, Ryan, Martin
This does not make any sense at all to me and I am trying to get it placed on the next AORcom meeting agenda, if you agree that this needs to be looked at could you please lobby your state AORcom representative.
Outright points are based on overall position. Class points are based on sections. Longer sections are weighted more. One of the reasons is to ensure that vehicles are encouraged to repair and get back on track for subsequent sections - hence W.Cowie at Sea Lake
I understand outright points are for overall position but if you are only chasing class points and win your class outright at an event it seems unfair that a competitor who finishes 7th in class gets the most points. If this is carried through at other events during the year it is possible the overall class winner could be someone who consistently finishes outside the placings.
The V8's have individual races and individual qualifying sessions now. How was the grid worked out a few years ago when they had a round of say 3 races? Was the finishing positions for race 1 the grid positions for race 2? At the end of a 3 race round, the used to have the winners of the round on the podium instead of the winners of the 3rd race.
Cobra, indeed thats how it is but it is also a race and I don't think anyone backed off in this instance. In this particular circumstance, Lindsay was 3rd outright and first in class and was awarded the trophies for his achievement. If you look at the class sitaution for the 2 sections which is basically 2 individual races, he finished 2nd in the first section and 5th in the second section.
There will never be a perfect system that advantages everyone and unless someone designs a better system that can be demonstrated to be beneficial then things will not change. I personally think the current point system at the national races for class points is the way to go.
The biggest positive to come out of this however should be the pro lite class itself. 5 buggies completed 3 laps of sea lake with less than 30 seconds covering the 5 different drivers with at least 3 different engines and a single seater in there too!If we compare this to the pinnacle of motorsport, Formula 1's, their races are 300km and usually have gaps larger than this........
Michael
-- Edited by 960Mike on Wednesday 8th of August 2012 05:47:19 PM
-- Edited by 960Mike on Wednesday 8th of August 2012 05:57:14 PM
Actually, Outright points are based on consistency where as class points are based on Speed.
The pointscore system is all in the Sup regs and that is accepted by entering the event. Yes it is different to how the South Australian SAORRA pointscore works but it doesnt mean the way the AORC does it is wrong. It is racing. Racing is the fastest car and by doing it in sections means there will be a fastest car for each section. There was less than 30 seconds between the first 5 pro lite cars in section 2 at Sea lake and if you were 25 seconds faster Lindsay then you would be leading the class by well over 100 points.
The V8 supercars is consistently changing to bring close racing and has had 3 different point scoring systems in the past 5 years. It can never apply to Off Road Racing as we cant have a mass start like circuit racing and we have sections where our race is stopped within a race. They dont stop Bathurst at the 2 hour and 4 hour marks and restart all the cars again.
Finke is a 2 section race however they have a regroup where they start in outright order after the first section so whoever passes the checkered flag first wins the race. This opens up another argument where without a regroup, we can have the 5th car past the flag win the race but we wont go there now.
Endurance racing has been conducted in South Australia where the race started and finished with no breaks but the complaints about refuelling in your own time while vehicles were hot caused an uproar. A race from start to finish is a 1 section race and the class winner would also be the class leader in the pointscore.
The V8 do have sections but thay call them race one and race two or some times race three thay start the the weekend with 300 point and depends on how many races there are it is divided up.
eg bathurst is one race or one section witch is 300 than 276 than 258 240 and so on. eg two race or two sections 150 138 129 and so on.
I believe that there has to be some sort of calculation to take into account the outright finishing position of each competitor in the class. Most competitors will adjust their pace based on their outright position in the event, or their outright position in their class in the event. If a driver finishes the first section two minutes ahead of the next closest in his class, it is only natural that he will drive a little more conservatively in the second section to preserve his position and look after his car. To be honest, he would be silly if he didn't take this into account. In the second section, he may be beaten by 3 or 4 others in his class, but still take the overall win because for the whole event he had the quickest time. He should receive some points benefit for this because he has still completed the event in the shortest time.
-- Edited by Trekka273 on Wednesday 8th of August 2012 08:33:48 PM
So if in an off road race a competitor chooses to back off and conserve his vehichle to finish an event knowing full well he or she wont be beaten for outright placing or class placing's in the final section cause they had already consolidated there position in the earlier sections, they now can be beaten on class points and overall class championship cause they were not the fastest car in the final section.But on time were the fastest car in there class to complete the event.???
sorry i did not word that well what i meant was that at the moment a competitor could win every round in their class and loose the aussie title to some one that only placed at each event this does not make sense as you said it is endurance racing.
The points system doesn't work in my opinion like others have said you can drive a good consistent race and finish first but still lose out on points , If you want a sprint series then that would be more like a State series. I would like to see the section points scraped in favour of your finishing position points and points for turning up at an event awarded.
And why when a car breaks in a heat can you apply to be seeded in-front of cars that have done all laps,Yes they might be faster than you but what happens if that fast car gets a flat tyre and stops to fix it and then has to pass all those cars. GIVE ME A BREAK PLEASE
So who is going to come up with a system that is fair and works for everyone? If you have an endurance race where you start and finish the race in one section you can be the first in class to cross the finish line but not win the class and you have no idea where other competitors are placed. At the moment, times are available after each section and you can pace your race on the speed of others which is not racing.
The Griffith 700 a few years ago seems to be the only endurance race there has been recently at national level where as what we have now is sprint sections to make up an endurance race.
Currently, the top 3 outright positions are for the previous years top 3 outright placings so should that be changed to be the top 10 seeing as there are more pro lites, super 1650's and Xtreme 2wd's finishing in the outright positions? Finishing 5th outright for the year as a pro lite and having the number 5 for the year would be better than winning the class wouldn't it? Just suggestions about possibilities but if cams make the decision on behalf of off roaders then you can bet that everyone will complain about it.
At the moment, times are available after each section and you can pace your race on the speed of others which is not racing.
Mike,
in my opinion thats racing smart or haven't you heard the saying "it dosen't matter if you win by an inch or a mile, winning is winning". I myself can't understand how you can race smart all weekend and win your class yet another racer in your class beats you on points, it just dosen't make sense to me, but thats just my opinion
The clubs organising the rounds apply for how many sections to have for their event, our club believes that the race is an endurance race so the Teagle Excavations ARB Pines Enduro is a 1 section event, rewarding those who have completed the full distance in the fastest time.
Not saying multiple section events are bad but it is a whole lot easier with one section.
If you want it changed tell the organising club what you would prefer, maybe they can apply for less sections ?
I agree with section points, but can someone tell me why the points are so large?? Whats wrong with 25 or 30 points for a section win, why 450 or 500! That's ridiculous !! And u need to award points for race results as well, it's wrong that we have consistent performers continually finishing races who get nothing for it! Changes I think need toads for 2013!
It appears to me that most of the forum respondents (as well as every one i have spoken to) agree that there is a fatal flaw in the current national point score system. I have achieved my goal of having this issue added to the AORCom agenda but have been told that if any changes are made they will not be applied to this season which is a pity as this means that the 2012 class place getters and ultimately the 2012 class champions will probably be false.
The next AORCom meeting is at the end of the month if you have any thoughts on the subject please email you state rep.
