Just wondering what people's thoughts are on the issue of engine capacity, and whether or not everyone is legal.
Years ago, we were, to the best of my knowledge, the second class 3 car in Australia to run the Suzuki GTi motor when the maximum capacity was 1200cc. This involved sleeving the engine, having pistons made, etc. We were never accused of having an illegal motor, but there always seemed to be that little bit of suspicion. I can assure you that it wa sleagl, I had the bills ot prove it!!
However, now with people spending such insane amounts of money on engines and new cars, does anyone wonder if they are all legal?
Why aren't there ever any checks done on engine capacity?
I think every race they should randomly (or subjectively if the need arises) have a check of engine capacity. I don't mean demand that someone strip their engine there and then, but surely a seal can be placed on the engine, and that seal cannot be broken without a designated inspector present. In this way, when it comes time to rebuild the engine, etc, the capacity can be checked to ensure compliance. If anything illegal is found, that competitor loses all points gained for the year, etc.
Maybe it isn't important, but it owuld be nice to dispel some rumours that I have heard floating around over the past few months. I am sure that the poeple concerned are legal, but at least it enables everyone to clear their name if need be.
One of the reasons off Roading is so popular is the environment we race in, and the limitations on regulations that surround the sport. In the most part this is down to the sports' position of self regulation. That is, everyone racing is so close to each competitor that the governing body feels they, (the competitor), is in the best situation to regulate the sport.
What this all means is that if you or anyone else feels there is any illegal setup of a competitors race car, put up the $50.00 and submit a formal protest. This stops the idle allegation but gives a very clear process to bring forward a complaint.
My initial feel is that most people are still spending the bulk of their vehicle cost on chassis and gearbox, there is more benefit there than spending $10 000.00 on the engine.
Kick my dog wrote: One of the reasons off Roading is so popular is the environment we race in, and the limitations on regulations that surround the sport. In the most part this is down to the sports' position of self regulation. That is, everyone racing is so close to each competitor that the governing body feels they, (the competitor), is in the best situation to regulate the sport.
What this all means is that if you or anyone else feels there is any illegal setup of a competitors race car, put up the $50.00 and submit a formal protest. This stops the idle allegation but gives a very clear process to bring forward a complaint.
My initial feel is that most people are still spending the bulk of their vehicle cost on chassis and gearbox, there is more benefit there than spending $10 000.00 on the engine.
I don't disagree with that at all.
My concern is that the high-end cars are now spending way in excess of $10,000 on an engine. Just yesterday I heard of two new engines that are being built by two of the top level drivers. Both came in around $50,000 each!!
I just think that the competition is getting to the level where so many people are spending hundreds of thousands dollars that it could lead to the temptation for a very small minority to push the limits of the law.
There is also the situation where if someone were to protest the engine of another competitor that they would be seen to be a bad loser, etc by other competitors.
I think self regulation is the go, as k.m.d. said. I also believe if you are spending $50g on an engine, then you would'nt risk going oversize and wasting that much money if caught! I'd be more interested in finding out how you could spend $50g on an engine in the first place...maybe gold plated tappet covers, platinum push rods, pure silver timing chains?
jones off road wrote: I think self regulation is the go, as k.m.d. said. I also believe if you are spending $50g on an engine, then you would'nt risk going oversize and wasting that much money if caught! I'd be more interested in finding out how you could spend $50g on an engine in the first place...maybe gold plated tappet covers, platinum push rods, pure silver timing chains?
It is very easy to spend that amount of money when you are buying new cranks, turbo's, cams, pistons, rods, etc, etc, etc.
I don't disagree with self-rgulation, however I have heard recently a number of romours concerning some of the latest V8 engines that are being run in some of the cars. I am not for one second suggesting that anyone is cheating, but a check of the engine capacity every so often on a random basis would surely put these rumours to rest.
Also, if it is self-regulation, and no one is ever checked, then you could very easily take the risk of building an engine over capacity because chances are that you would never be caught.
I would have to agree that with the importation of turn key American cars there is the potential for motors to be oversized because the yanks don't run 5.7 or 6.0 gen 3's -they are a fair bit bigger.
The v8 boys also think they are at a disadvantage compared to turbo cars. There was a fairly robust discussion on this forum last year on turbo multiplication factors
TOYOTAPOWR wrote: I would have to agree that with the importation of turn key American cars there is the potential for motors to be oversized because the yanks don't run 5.7 or 6.0 gen 3's -they are a fair bit bigger.
The v8 boys also think they are at a disadvantage compared to turbo cars. There was a fairly robust discussion on this forum last year on turbo multiplication factors
Exactly. I just think some random testing, etc could be setup so that people know for sure. It would be as big a benefit for those getting tested, so that everyone can see that their engines are 100% legal, as it owuld be for those who sit back and wonder about another person's engine.
The testing doesn't have to done on the spot. A seal could be put on the engine of the selected car, and when it next came time for that engine to be stripped for maintenance or re-build, then a CAMS rep would need to be present. In this way, you are not putting the competitor to added expense by making him take the head of the car before leaving the event. I believe that there is also some measuring instrument available that can go down the spark plug hole which then expands to meausre the stroke and bore. If this tool was available, how easy would it be then?
its called a bubble test it takes about 6min and can be done strait after the race
With due respect I doubt it could be done in 6 minutes on many engines. To remove the rocker gear on a V6 honda would take about an hour on a cool engine.
My first point of resistance to bubble testing is the requirement to open the engine in a dust laden environment.
Most proffesional race engine builders wont build cheater engines.
TOYOTAPOWR wrote: The v8 boys also think they are at a disadvantage compared to turbo cars. There was a fairly robust discussion on this forum last year on turbo multiplication factors
Why? A good 6 litre engine will run around 600 hp. A turbo 3.5 about the same with sensible boost. Withh more boost comes more power but it has to last to win.
Late breaking news from WA is that there could be capacity checks at scrutineering for Hyden which hopefully will lay all rumours and inuendo to rest --- for at least 5 minutes anyway!!
TOYOTAPOWR wrote: Late breaking news from WA is that there could be capacity checks at scrutineering for Hyden which hopefully will lay all rumours and inuendo to rest --- for at least 5 minutes anyway!!
I noticed something on one of the WA websites about that yesterday.
I am sure that no one would be cheating, but I think if checks were to happen it would help to clear those people who are under the subject to romours at the present time. That can only be a good thing. Everyone will know that they are on a level playing field.
We're running a 4.0Ltr v8... thats 500cc per cyl... does this mean Im allowed to disconnect the spark plug and injector to no 1 cyl and run as 3.5ltr?
noo.... didnt think so... :)
I dont mind the idea of bubble testing. Personally, if someone was questioning my engine I'd rather spend an hour having it checked and proving its legal than have people talk about whether or not Im a cheat.
BTW - just purchased our timing chain and asked for a silver one, evidently they only make them out of rubber..... So I got the titainium plated water pump instead. :)
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Green Sally up. Green Sally down. Lift and squat, gonna tear the ground.
And I agree, if there were rumours about an engine that I was running I would want it to be checked just so everyone knew that it was legal.
Everyone talks about how porfessional the sport has become at the highest level, well, if that is the case then I think they need to do some testing. It is all part and parcel of being "professional". People are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on their cars now, I am sure that a quick check isn't going to be that big of a deal.
