Before I argue to keep AORC the way it is, can someone explain why a one race round would be better? One round would be like playing lotto...anyone could win... and probably someone who does,nt deserve it!
l believe that it should stay the way it is, although it would be great if we had a signature round like Bathurst is to V8 Supercars. NSW has the king of the mountain bragging rights we could have that for a national although the Finke comes close already.
yeah - a national championship should be national, or as close to national as practical.
With other races/clubs currently not having national rounds but wanting them, I kinda like the idea of cycling the national rounds. Keep it to 5 or 6 rounds per year (whatever the national competiors want, afterall, theyre the ones spending the fuel bills to get there!), but if theres 8 tracks wanting a round 3 each year (or whatever) miss out and they get cycled to the following year.
I beleive something like this has been discussed already? but Im not sure.
There is a selection criteria that needs to be met for nationals isnt there? Minimum km distance, minimum distance from from motels etc?
Youve also got the whole drop the worst round question as well...
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Green Sally up. Green Sally down. Lift and squat, gonna tear the ground.
who dosent deserve to win ,is the bloke who cant get all the extra days off work to go to 5 rounds or the bloke who cant afford to get to 5 rounds, why not just have 1 shot at it and that way anyone who came to race and won would be a deserved winner.
O.K. So all those racers who cant make 5 rounds show up to just one round annually. How many competitors do you think would show? I guess approx 200-300, maybe 400. How do you run an event with that many? What happens when a proven champ (ie Rentsch, Burrows) gets caught in the dust and the 'aust champ one rounder' is won by a challenger car on three wheels holding up the rest of the field because he does'nt know the rules of letting faster cars pass? Would he be a deserved winner? (extreme example) Griffith race, I think it was Burrows, won prologue, first car out, came accross a closed gate...this could be all it takes to lose if it was a 'one rounder'? What about incorrect course markers, stopping for an accident (compassionate time), penalties, spectator pranks, bogged/broken vehicles, blocked tracks, the list goes on and on? The 'one round" notion is rediculous. As for the bloke who cant get time off work for 5 rounds, what about the bloke who cant make the 'one rounder' (sickness, aniversary etc)? He will have to wait till next year! What happens if the rotated (I assume) national is in WA the following year? Thats 2-3 weeks off work! B.T.W. I'm only just warming up!
200-300 cars at a offroad event how that mite get the media inerest in offroading .now say that the bloke who only turns up to the round in his state decides he would be better off not going to 1 national round out of 5 keep his money and only do his state rounds then what have you got , 10 -15 cars for a national round , i sure it would be easier moving 1 weekend activities than tring to find 5 free weekends, as for slower cars dont we have to have uhf radios this year for just that this. isnt there already around in w.a.
200-300 cars would create media interest, but I think they would be filming total chaos. I think the first part of your reply is pretty much how it is now, but we get more than 10-15 cars (approx50-60). Yes, finding one weekend is easier then finding 5...but my point is trying to find the most 'deserved' national champ, not finding convenient weekends. I dont think UHF is compulsory yet, except Finke, (the idea being mainly for accidents/breakdowns) but it is hard to hear whats going on if you do have one (whilst trying to drive/navigate), and what if your unit is not working half way down the track and you can't hear the car behind you? (would you stop to repair it, chancing losing your 'one round' event?) I know there is a round in WA, I was trying to make an example if the 'one rounder' was adopted, that east coasters may not travel (and vise-versa), meaning we would still not have an example of a true national champ.
im not sure that 50-60 cars do all the rounds at the moment its more like 10-15, and the point about been the most deserved may not be the bloke who can send the most time/ money doing 5 rounds then again that the way the system works at the moment so maybe it is
This style of championship works quite well in other forms of motorsport. Mind you they are quite different to our racing.
If it could be set up in a way that you must qualify at state races throughout the year first, and every state gets a round I think it could work.
Just want to make this quite clear.....I'm not picking on you Jones!
But......to say that anyone one who wins a round of the Australian championship and is not a "favourite" therefore doesn't deserve it, is complete crap! Anyway, how many championships in the past have been one before the last round, or has been won by someone who hasn't run at all the rounds??? there would be quite a few I would think.
To all show up for one round, winner takes all, would be quite exciting in my opinion. But what a mightmare to organise, won't be putting my hand up for Event director.
I am not a National competitor so I have no real preference, but its not a bad yarn! Perhaps if there was only one round I could be a National competitor....
the idea of having to do x amount of state rounds is good that way you get all the big plays out and about at state level, also you could spilt the classes say on sat run class se 2,3,5,7 and on sunday run pro , prolite,4and8 that way it would be easier to manage and give every one a chance.
Sorry fatman, but Ive gotta have a dig. do you really want big budget guys like burrows, rentch, crowe, bentley etc at a majority of thier state rounds? get real. you want the "deserving" guys to win, how about the guys who win their state champs? Guys like JT, Darren etc?
The big dollars go play nationals, they can afford the 5 or so races a year across the country, and good luck to them. These guys havent gone out and spent big bucks to race once, so theyll invade the state rounds and the guys on a tighter budget all of a sudden have no chance to win anything.
Yep. I can see that being a great attraction to our sport.
our sport is growing quickly so its obviously pretty healthy. leave it alone!
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Green Sally up. Green Sally down. Lift and squat, gonna tear the ground.
Are you sure your not picking on me aztek? I did'nt mean that if you win a national ROUND you dont deserve it...I meant if you win a "one round" championship that the deserving person might not necessarily win.(due to all the variables) Therefore if A person was deserving, then he would perform well at all 5 rounds (using the law of averages) I'm starting to confuse myself now! I think a one race scenario only suits promoters who need spectators to come to the event (speedway, motorcross etc). If it was a good system then why dont formula 1, v8 supercars, rally, porsche cup etc use it? Maybe an answer would be to have a separate 'one off' race by a promotor, near a major centre, separate (or maybe part of the AORC), so that the winner could call themselves something like "THE ONE ROUND, ONE-OFF, ANNUAL, LUCKY RUN, EVERYONE ELSE BROKE DOWN, KING OF THE ?, CHAMPION" Or is this 'complete crap'
Time to go to the pub, oops... I mean home, now. Great discussion today...you can see I did'nt do much real work (bloody forum). Hope I didnt offend too many, its all good fun after all. Next week we should pick on aztek, or maybe kmd, slow, 260, 432, or maybe...... avagoodweekend
Anyone who wins an off road race deserves it, be it a club, state or national race. If a guy wins because everybody else crashed, broke or gives up then they are the winners!!! is this not how it should be?
Not all V8 supercar/F1 races are won by the driver who set the fastest time, its the team that pits at the right time, chooses the right tyres and laps consistantly fast. The last two V8 Supercar championships were won by drivers that did not win one race!!
Whats the most prestigious event on the V8 supercar calendar??....if your answer is "Bathurst" you would be correct. Why, you ask, because up until recently it was always a stand alone event. This is what made it the great race- Everybody went there to WIN not protect their champoinship points. My feeling is the race has lost its stature a little due to it now being a round of the championship.
A little bit closer to home-Finke may be considered the most prized race on our calendar. I wonder if this is due to it being a stand alone event a few years back??!! Oh, did you know that the Finke desert race was held on the same weekend as the Sealake round of the AORC, yet everybody went to Finke. I wonder if its the Finke race that has played a key role in making off road racing what it is today?? No, one race alone could not do that!!!
Well, I was going to the pub....mmmmm beer! Yes Edsel, i mean azteck... no matter how you win, you do deserve it. But could you call yourself a National Champ if you win one race...hell, I might call myselt "International champ" next time I beat you in prologue! Or even if I beat you in the scrutineering line!
First of all lets get the media out of the equation.Off road racing is a competitor sport much like dirt rallying. You race to race, not to be seen racing.
Qualifying through state rounds is not a bad idea. Burrows/Rentsch and other national racers still have to win at state level. I think you give the state guys too little credit.
A one round title is good for a spectator sport like speedway. It helped us in 06 when a competitor zigged when they should have zagged and made us 06 aust speedcar champs. This year as a defending champ it hurt us when we had a fuel feed problem.
I dont have the answers. The current system works to a degree.
Also I dont propose any cost cutting measures. Control/controlled racing is by far the most expensive racing of all.
im sure it would be a reassuring to all those people who sponsor a buggy that we race not be seen. as for compairing offroad to f1/v8 or any other professional series would nice, but we are more like motorakaha or hillclimb and they only have 1 round aust championships.
For a 1 race national championship to work, there would have to be qualifying series for each state. 200 or 300 car races would not work in off road
Um, fields of greater than 200 used to be commonplace at Sealake. 220cars, 2 off at a time at 30 second intervals gave a great days racing. If everyone prologues right, there is very little problem as all the cars are slowly drawing away from each other.
And yes it is getting rather dark and lonely waiting for the last car to arrive at the finish line . (my brother was officially last finisher once and pulled in on 3 wheels at around 5pm.)
A multi series championship is the ideal as it gives drivers a chance to excel at a range of locations, all with their different challenges.
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"I'm dangerous when i'm cornered. I fall to pieces so quickly people get hit by the schrapnel" Zaphod Beeblebrox - Galactic President
After giving this some thought over the weekend, (whilst working in the shed) I have come to the conclusion that the Championship is probably best left the way it is. Let the big boys play with the big boys, the rest of us can pick and choose the races we wish/can afford to do. State racing, at least in NSW and from what I've seen recenty in VIC, Is alive and well. And National level is flying. So why change??
We could however look at reducing the amount of rounds that count. ie:have 5 or 6 rounds with only 3 or 4 to count. This way the travel time could be reduced for all competitors, would reduce the risk of someone "undeserving" winning the championship" (which is still complete crap btw) and state racing would remain unchanged.
Or, have a championship within the champoinship-so the big boys who are in a position to do all the rounds do so. Then the guys who can manage 3 rounds can run in any of the 5 or 6 rounds of the AORC, for separate championship points.**** I should point out that this idea is not mine, and think it had been talked about previously by the AORcom**** I liked it!
Maybe a round in NSW would be nice also!!
But like I have said before, I'm not an AORC competitor(unfortunately) and probably should just keep my mouth shut.....but it is fun picking on Jones!
what I am trying to say is with the speed difference of the fastest cars to the slowest, there is no way that 200+ cars on track would work. Can you imagine being in a production 4wd or 2wd, which isn't going to match the speed of one of the top buggies and having one of them come screaming past. I don't think cams would let that happen as it would be dangerous. For 200 cars on track to work, the track would have to be long, wide to allow passing and prologue would have to get the cars sorted perfectly. That is why I say it wouldn't work, there is too many ifs
im sure that if all the big boys decided to run state rounds as well as aust rounds that all the people who just run state wont not stop going to state rounds, now im just saying that it would be nice just to have 1 round for the aust champinship that way you take out the time/money factor and just race for the champinship , yes sometimes you do have bad luck and you get stuck in dust or the gate was shut ,but sometimes you have good luck as well and you win
