Just for the record pete..... I never once said that older cars don`t have a place in our sport, you keep making these assumptions and i`m not sure why?
Older cars a crucial to the future growth of our sport, we have a few older cars ourselves so why would i have a vendetta against them?

OHH I am sure thats what the organisers thought lets put up the entry fee so less people enter.How about you pull your head in and leave the people who are actully doing something for the sport to do what they love to do its the knockers that end up annoying the people that actully do something enough they stop and where does that leave you ohh no where to race at all.Its a national event with high risk and it takes a lot to organise and costs a lot of money if you dont like it I look forward to racing your event you run for free

well mate when i finnish building my own track , your wellcome to come and race on it and you can camp for free to

yes i fully agree about crack testing every 3 years but also after any major incident, but at the end off the day all cars should be crack tested as this is offroad racing
and it dose not mater what your car is made from all things break / crack etc from the abuse , but that also opens up the budget racer problem at the cost to do so ? what do you think?
at the end of the day we r in a dangerous sport and accidents do happen and it does not matter how much safety you take to stop that , if its meant to happen it will , just like the old saying when your times up theres nothing you can do about it

I no longer race as I don't have the money to afford a car, so you can take my opinion however you like.

We started out racing in an old Verco Hustler in class 3, and it was a good little car. However, it was getting to the stage where every time we took it out there were new cracks, more problems, etc. At one point we did a fairly major rebuild on the front end due to some massive cracking, and when we cut into the frame the amount of sand, etc that came out of the tubes was quite frightening. Over the years the floor had been fixed with pop rivets, holes drilled for different fittings, etc. Now I know this is not allowed now, with good reason, but it made us really think about how safe that car was (and the answer was not very!!), so we got rid of it and got a new (third hand) car. It was a lot newer, better built, etc, and was a lot safer.

I am not sure what the answer is, as I don't want to see anyone put out of the sport because they can't afford different checks on their frames, etc, but in my ipinion, something needs to be put in place to ensure that the frames are at a minimum safety level. If that means mandatory crack testing or CAMS inspection every x number of years, or restircting cars shassis over x number years of age to competing in Sportsman or Super 1650 class, etc, then so be it. We can't continually knock these safety aspects back simply because "it will put the poor racer out of the sport". There are very few metalurgical experts who race in our sport, so how are we to know that the roll hoop that might look fine to the naked eye isn't ready to collapse if you suffer from a roll over due to fatigue, etc? I think something about restricting the class that chassis over say 15 years of age (just a random number, not sure what the actual figure should be) be excluded from being able to run in Pro Class or Pro Lite class unless it meets certain standards (ie, passes crack testing, chassis stength testing, whatever the test may be).

Like I said, just my opinion, but with the relatively cheap high power import engines that are available now, it is too easy for a car to be way over powered for the strength of the chassis. It might come back to common sense, but too many of us overlook common sense when it comes to being able to get "just a bit more power", so I think a set of rules needs to be in place to ensire the safet of everyone involved.

so where do u start and draw the line?

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Excellent subject for discussion guys and there is some very good comments in here already.

In answer to your question, AORCom will "draw the line" in regards to what requirements older chassis will have to meet.

It is a topic that the Commission has been contemplating for a little while now and seeking feedback from the State Off Road Panels. We are very conscious obviously of what effect any decisions made will have on the grassroots club and state level competitor, but we have to balance that against ensuring that we have adequate standards in place to satisfy our insurers and governing body and thus protect all our interests. Over the next 12 months, this issue will be advanced by AORCom with possible implementations for 2010?

There is some good ideas raised here already (most are already under consideration by AORCom) and i encourage you all to continue offering your thoughts.

so where do u start and draw the line?

In year 2000 there was a major chassis spec change, so pre 2000 spec and post 2000 spec.

old cars have a place. look at russle hartnets gumboot
that dude is way quicker than some of these boys with the big toys.
if ya own an older car, just be prepared to make it safe.
that is all.

This is a tricky subject, we want/need all the cars we can get, but everyone has to be safe as well.  If its left up to the individual to decide that his car is safe enough,
he will either keep welding it up, or sell it to someone else and build another one.
Problem solved for him, but the car is still out there.

Love the idea of smaller capacity engines in older cars, and a tech inspection every 1 or 2 years wouldn't  be a bad idea.
 
The cars in the USA may be checked regularly... but what about pit and spectator saftey...we are miles-make that light years ahead in this area.   I watch some of those DVDs from over there and shudder!   


-- Edited by Azteck at 06:28, 2008-12-01

wolf i have just reread all my words on this topic and not once does any of my words attack kuster , why would i want to attack kuster as i have never met the man!!
if its all about the rich brats comment well i deal with people like that on a daily basis and it gets to me , as i do not come from money i do not hold money in high regard i am family first ,money 2nd type of bloke , money comes and goes family dose not , so if this comment offened anyone i do appoiogise for my comment ,but not for the reaction of others ,
cheers pete

hi obr184
firstly congrat's on the baja good to see aussies having a go!

when u say sr20 is that turbo or no-turbo or both? , as i can say my car with non-turbo sr20
i wish it could do 200kph but realistic its good for about 130-140kph if im lucky and had a tail wind going down hill LOL
ALL YOUR OTHER COMENTS ARE SPOT ON MATE !!! I AGREE
I ALSO HAVE NO INTENTION OF RACING MY OLD CAR FOREVER JUST UNTILL MY NEW ONE IS READY! THE OLD ONE WAS AND IS A STEPPING STONE BACK TO OFFROAD FOR ME TO KEEP ME ENTHUSED TO BUILD MY NEW ONE
cheers pete

This car that you've rebuilt 3/4 of and would have rebuilt the other 1/4 by next year, I'm only guessing that you are planning on running it under the old log book, or are you applying for a new one???? If not then are the scrutineers just supposed to take peoples word that its like new with just a few cuts and joins in it, because if thats the case most cars out there are only as young as they feel.

I think there will always be a need for older more affordable cars as not everyone has the spare cash for some of the newer stuff or might not feel the need to spend so much. Getting into the sport most people will start in an older, cheaper car. Dollar to fun ratio i am sure my new car wont be five times more fun than the old Rivy. On the safety side of things there "can be" a big difference. The local TAFE bought my rivy and did a full strip, rebuild, powder coat job as well as engine swap. seeing the old girl in the nude was a bit scary(the car not the ex). Some of the previous repairs were pretty rough, a couple of the main cage welds had been bogged up to look pretty. I would hate to crash it!!! They sorted out all the dodgy bits and the car is much safer than it was, head room is still an issue as it is with most cars of its age. It now runs a 20valve toyota engine and goes realy well, i think a class/capacity limit for old cars is sensible as well as some improvements in head clearances. Nobody wants to make the sport more difficult to get into or remain in. However safety is a major concern, shoulda/coulda/woulda doesnt help after someone gets hurt.     

I dont want to waffle on but on the subject of big dollar cars, they do draw  much needed attention and sponsors to our sport. I used to work at a BMW dealership and a large amount of the wealthy people i encountered were self obsessed miserable people that didnt seem to know how to really enjoy life. One of my mates earns huge money but works enormous hours and wont spend a cent, if he was a fish he would have two asses. In our sport we do have some wealthy people, but they are spending their money having a great time and playing with awesome toys. Good on them i say, we are all just trying to have fun. When i bought my rivmasta i thought that was a lot of money, and it was because that was all i could spare at the time. Its all relative.