POLL - should class 2 upgrade engine size?

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

POLL - should class 2 upgrade engine size?

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

Big yes!

racer · Regular Poster

big no

In rehab

No.

Then again, replacement SR16 engines are hard to find & maybe, just maybe, an SR 16 VVL head would fit an SR20 bottom end, Hmmmmm? Still, No for now

wolf 2214 · In rehab

I'm with you garry. Big YES.

delete · In rehab

I would vote no. I believe we have bigger problems within this sport that need our attention.

ARB TIPPING CHAMPION 2013

I vote a big YES!!! With the new rules on frame sizes making the new cars heavier we need MORE POWER so as not to have class 3's passing us with old frames that are half the weight cos of rust and i like the speeds that would come with MORE POWER

wolf 2214 · In rehab

Kelvin, it's not so much the old frames it's more to do with the engine size of class 3. With only 1300cc on tap they have to build them light.

wolf 2214 · In rehab

2204, remember anybody is entitled to an opinion. Dusteater has been around the sport for a while, but i'll leave it there.

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

Big no from me. I have been a class 2 competitor for 24 years. By all means let's change the current regulations which are, apart from capacity, there are none.

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

206 - yeah, its possible to do... there's a japanese drift site (cant remember it now but will email it though for you when Im back in the office in a couple of weeks) where they do it for fat torque curves on na class drifters.

Its a nizmo related site... and you need to download the japanese character conversion set... thats all I can remember.... sounds like drool worthy fun though... :)

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

Oh - while I think of it, no the webmaster account has NOT voted in this poll effectively giving me 2 votes... so to the person who suggested it thanks for taking an interest... but its not exactly in the spirit of it is it?

BAJAs RULE · In rehab

Good drivers don't scare anybody! (maybe you should think about what you are telling people about your driving style)

Its simple: if you want more power change class. (doesn't matter how much you have, you always want more.)

I don't know of many class 2 drivers who think that they are disadvantaged with a 1600-1650 sized engine when competing in class 2.

I run a 2ltr in my baja and I believe this to be more than capable of class 1 power.

Perhaps an easier solution to the problem would be to combine the classes - this worked well enough for class 4! Hey, maybe then the Stadium Trucks could run in class 1 too. What the hell, lets collapse all the classes and all run in class 1: no rules, no restrictions, let's just race! (We'll call it the MAD MAX class)

PS. I voted "no"...

ARB TIPPING CHAMPION 2013

Can't be too bad BAJAs RULE, cos i seem to remember over taking you on the side of track with your rear arm broken off when i won outright at colo

Sorry Garry, i might have got a bit carried away with my last comment, BUT i still think that class two and class ones with 2lt's and under should decide what to do about changing class two, not the people that don't own a buggy or have the expense of maintianing one, especially when they are talking about the cost envolved with going to 2lt

P.S BAJAs RULE, most people don't like sitting in the passengers seat at the speeds we do, especially so close to trees

BAJAs RULE · In rehab

Well done champ! Just having a stir, but my car broke because it's a 17 year old poc and apparently I overdrive it. I'm sorry if I offended you, and I will resist mentioning why you didn't go far at the next event.

Hey nobody's perfect. In my 19 years of driving, I've been wide open for many attacks about my ability, luck, fortune and personal opinion.

delete · In rehab

quote:
Originally posted by: 2204
P.S Dusteater, anytime you get balls to hop in one give me a call, i'd be happy to scare the s#*t out of you -- Edited by Wolf at 18:00, 2005-03-28"

Kelvin my licence is current. Im ready when you are. Ive been in this sport for 24 years. You were probably in nappies when I went to my first off road race which was the AORC Round at Griffith in 1981. Since then I have driven some but mostly navigated. I dare say that some of those I have sat beside would have no problems driving rings around you no matter how good your car is. I have sat beside Bill Croft who drove the entire race with one hand on the wheel & one hand shuffling between the gear stick & the turning brakes. Fast, exhilerating & smooth - no fear. Consider that if you are scaring your navigator youre probably driving erratically & above your competancy level. Im happy to sit in the left seat for a race at Colo this weekend.

Besides what the hell gives you the right to say I should not have an opinion? And I really dont give a damn what you think of my commentary ability - its only your opinion. This forum is not for personal attacks. Moderate yourself or stay off the forum - thats my opinion!

delete · In rehab

moderated.

lets keep to the topic!

-- Edited by Wolf at 09:10, 2005-04-01

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

Dust mate thats verrrrrry borderline... play nice.......

and we're getting a bit off topic.

BAJAs RULE · In rehab

Back to the subject, I'd like to say that by running a 2ltr engine in my car, I would obviously be effected if this change went through and I run a 2ltr because I want the extra torque that I get from it, and I want to run in class 1. I only have a 2ltr VW gearbox and haven't broken one since 1995 (touch wood), I'm pretty sure if I was to increase my engine for a new class one this would be effected.

Having raced my fathers class 2 a few times I know that it requires a different driving style to get the most out of the engine. I feel that this is the extra challenge that class 2 drivers want, correct me if I am wrong? I feel that the perfomance jump from 1650 to 2ltr is great enough to remove this extra challenge thus removing the class appeal.

I know that it would just change the level that everyone would be competing, but the difference between class 1 and class 2 would, in my opinion, not really exist anymore as the limit of the 1650 engine does effect the size of the car that it pushes along.

whatever ??????

P.S. my fathers computer is down at the moment but he would vote "no"

-- Edited by BAJAs RULE at 13:59, 2005-03-31

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

Im sure there must be big difference between running an n.a. 2ltr class 1 car and a turbo 3 litre or 6 litre class 1 car... so I dont agree with your comment that the difference between class 1 and 2 wouldnt exist...

Im sure the difference between a 1650cc class 2 car and a 1350cc class 3 car would be alot closer...

Nor do I think that going to 2ltr would remove class appeal from a drivers point of view - surely the added torque could only increase driver appeal.

Food for thought though never the less. :)

Good to see you've been running an n.a. with a kombi box for so long without breaking it too.

ps - thanks for voting for your old man as well... thought it was strange to not have seen his 2c in yet. :)

BAJAs RULE · In rehab

I spose I don't really Know much about the power difference in reguards to the turbo 3 litre or 6 litre class 1 car, as I've never been in anything larger than a 2.6 E.F.I.

Buggies these days are so varied in build style compared to 6 years ago. The varied style of vehicles these days with the "A arm" - Mid mount designs makes any class restructure a nightmare. There are Just too many box's to fit cars into, whether it be suspension, engine size, transmission, weight, no.of occupants, wheel base, wheel travel (front ,rear or the average of both), or any other system that I haven't thought of.

I guess the question is,- is there a need to restucture the classes?

Maybe, but you will never please everyone (especially longer competing competitors who are stuck in those tram tracks that the new cars seem to get out of easier).

Maybe just add a pro class on top and whoever thinks they are good enough can nominate to compete in it.

At the end of the day the nature of off roading will always promote new and radical changes in the drive for the better off road racing machine, and those with the cash to explore will always be in a different field to the rest.

The main thing is that as many people are happy with their own personal efforts and should be allowed to enjoy what ever level they choose.

Flash225 · Newbie

Great discussion. It’s funny how the topic has gone from, “should we give Class 2 more horse power”? To… I’m so fast in class 2 that I scare the B-Jesus out of my navigator, as I pass a disabled 2ltr class one? What?

Class two and three for that matter has always been a somewhat humble class of drivers who took pride in their driving not their capacity or turbo horse power. Finishing outright winner or in the top five was a great sense of accomplishment in driving skills while not having the fastest car on the day.

Learning to compete in a limited motor class only makes you a better driver. Personally, my favorite racing has been in a class 2 with a 1589 cc motor.

Keep class 2 an affordable option for racers who want to be competitive through preparation and driving skills.

What about combining Class 1 and 9? That seems to make more sense

dessert-people · Rehab Dropout...

i think that we are all missing the point here, the technology that goes in to our cars grows all the time, but the way we go racing has been the same for more than 20 years, its time to make changes or we will be stuck in this rut of club racing forever. we as a sport need to ask the question. how does 6 rally cars get hour long tv on ch 10 when we can't get a page coverage in AA on aust rounds. having to explain the class system to a sponsor is hard enough but to joe public its near impossible. thats my 10cents worth or 11 with gst

wolf 2214 · In rehab

I think with the 2lt engine in class 2 it will still be an affordable class to compete in. Aaron McClintock was running a N/A 2lt in his class 9 with a Kombi box, so i don't see what the problem is. I think it's more to do with people not wanting to change.

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

Its an excellent point. 2Ltr / 1800 Kombi should be able to handle the power, afterall, there are plenty of turbo/SC cars running them, so the only real expense to upgrade to be competitive in class should be the engine and adaptor.

Ongoing costs shouldnt be any more than a what a serious class 2 competitor would have been spending anyway...

though with the 2nd arguement (pro class debate), I think its time to change... the difficulty is how & when. They why I think is already being debated...

BTW - I think this is the quote of the thread so far... "The main thing is that as many people are happy with their own personal efforts and should be allowed to enjoy what ever level they choose." Good call. :) We're all here because we love to go fast and love a challenge... probably why Im enjoying this thread so much! LoL! :)

dessert-people · Rehab Dropout...

mick

if class 2 get there 2lt engines what happens to the class 9 cars that are runing 2lt now. they either spend more money to buy bigger engines or get swamped by class2 cars. its easy to say that this change will ony affect class 2 but is that the truth.

wolf 2214 · In rehab

Class 9 should have the advantage anyway, because they have only one person in the car. Also remember class 9 is limited to 6lt not 2lt so they should always have the advantage.

ARB TIPPING CHAMPION 2013

I have to agree with you 1887, more exposure on our sport is needed to lift the profile of our sport and hopefully bring in some sponsership, even if it was only to help lower the cost of the entry fee's.

As for getting swamped by class two's, 2lt (if changed) would only be a limit, it dosen't mean you have to have a 2lt, like class 9 is 6lt, if you can go faster with a smaller,lighter and high reving engine in the set up you have, eg. light wieght frame and smaller gearbox, then you don't have to change your set up unless you want to, thats just my opinion and i could be wrong

P.S. DUSTEATER i have already said it once, but again, SORRY about my earlier comments, i was mis-informed about somethings by people that don't like you it seems and i'll leave it there, with the ball in your court

dessert-people · Rehab Dropout...

i dont know if class 9 has a advantage (when was the last time a cl 9 won a aust round) i think the simple way too get your 2lt is to run in class 1 then you can have any engine up to 6lt.

wolf 2214 · In rehab

With more A Arm cars turning up in class 2, i think it's only fare to upgrade to 2Lt.