POLL - should class 2 upgrade engine size?

phantom sorra writers · Powerhouse Poster

RE: POLL - should class 2 upgrade engine size?

kel · Powerhouse Poster

I dont really know how a arm cars are at a disavantage.I think maybe some of you people jumping up and down should get out of the club scene and do at least 1 nat round then think again.I am not against anything about the topic.

wolf 2214 · In rehab

Bigger and heavier. In saying this i think it's time the whole class thing got re structured. i.e Combine class 1 and class 9, Engine unlimited. Class 2, engine 2Lt. Class 3, 1.5Lt. Class 4, Engine unlimited Front or mid mount.

look out · Newbie

I think that class 2 should stay as is a vw gear box is good but you change to 2050 cc you will need a stronger gear box it is a weak link. A lot off people think thay need more power but just think about are you using all the power you have got

was 145 once · Regular Poster

SOUNDS LIKE THE ONE'S WITH THE NEW "BIG" BUGGIES ARE HAVING THE BIGGEST WINGE

SPEND MONEY ON YOUR CURRENT MOTORS INSTEAD OF BUYING IMPORT STOCK MOTORS THERE ARE SOME OUT THERE THAT CAN MAKE POWER WITH A FEW $$$ SPENT ON THEM OR GO CLASS 1 AND STOP THE DEBATE

DON'T SPOIL A NOT TO EXPENSIVE COMPETITIVE CLASS

Azteck · In rehab

Great debate guys

Both sides of the fence make good points

My view is this

In Australia we tend to look to the Americans for ideas,parts and technology to make our cars faster and stronger. You don't have to look to hard around the pits these days to see that, there are more Jimcos and Chenowths than Rivmastas!!!

Funny how Class 10(USA)(class 2 in OZ)have stayed with 1650cc even though they all run those Big A arm cars, and can run 1 or 2 seats, this would suggest that they don't see weight as a big disadvantage for an engine of this size

Also, yes, I did run a 2ltr engine with a kombi box for many years with some good results, however, the box was rebuilt after every 2nd race,and they were state races not national races, if it wasn't, it would blow-up......FACT

With a bigger a engine comes, bigger G'boxes,tyres,brakes not to metion more wear on CVs,axles,clutches......

Sure, there is a big gap between Class 1 and Class 2, but you might find the real gap is not engine capacity but the $$$$$$$$$

Class 2 is still a very competitive and affordable class to go offroad racing in....lets keep it that way

Anyway I went from 2ltr to 5.7 and I'm going slower.........#@!$%^&

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

It certainly is a great debate. actually - considering its a discussion regarding engine size - and therefore mass... does that make it a mass debate?

Votes are currently 35 for, 65 against... fairly telling even before we've had an official word from the powers that be, even though 20 votes isnt a huge cross section of offroaders.

Im still a firm yes, no doubt we'll have our fair no's... but I also know of, or the grapevine has informed me of, some who were fence sitters or tentative yes's are now on the other side of the fence...

I look forward to the reading the minutes from the AORC meeting.

obr184 · Forum Junkie

if you were to combine class 1 and 9 and make it unlimited Garry, we would then have to ban turbos because the fact is it would just be to dangerous. And there are alot of fast class 2s keeping up with the best class 1s. ie: Chris Coulthard, Shannon Irvin etc. Why change something that is one of the most fundemental parts of our type motorsport.

trav184 · Regular Poster

i believe that class 2 should have different capacities for the types of engine just like in the US, if there water cooled of air cooled etc.

wolf 2214 · In rehab

Why would you want to run an Air Cooled Engine for?

dessert-people · Rehab Dropout...

maybe to save weight

obr184 · Forum Junkie

volkswagon

wolf 2214 · In rehab

Volkswagon, why would you bother.

trav184 · Regular Poster

ohhh there would be no reason to but in the states FAT performance make some good 1.8 litre vw, that are just as fast as the water cooled 1.6

wolf 2214 · In rehab

Mmm, how about a Stan Pobjoy engine. You want a VW engine built Pobjoy's the man.

Tassie Devil · In rehab

Why the hell would we want to complicate things further and split Class 2 into water cooled and air cooled for? And to get decent performance and realiability out of a VW you would spend considerably more than you would on the readily available japanese water cooled engines. We are trying to have a sensible debate here about the future direction of Class 2, i for one take it very seriously and i am not impressed by this sort of dribble turning up on the forum.

heyu · Rehab Dropout...

After seeing the results from Hyden and Mildura,can someone explain to me WHY there is any reason to put 2 litre cars in to a class that is already obviously competitive. Unless,the proponent's of the idea ,have a motor of that size and don't want to run in class 1????????????

Just a thought!

obr184 · Forum Junkie

quote:
Originally posted by: heyu
"After seeing the results from Hyden and Mildura,can someone explain to me WHY there is any reason to put 2 litre cars in to a class that is already obviously competitive. Unless,the proponent's of the idea ,have a motor of that size and don't want to run in class 1???????????? Just a thought!"

AMEN to that.....

heyu · Rehab Dropout...

how come we feel we have a need to upsize engines when the leading cars in the class are featuring in the top ten fairly regularly ,some of the class 3's are scaring class 1's as well,maybe we can put them in the 2ltre class. Just a thought??

Trekka273 · sponsor

I would have to vote a big no on this one.

I have previously raced in a large number of National and State rounds. I was not the quickest driver/vehicle combination but I raced quite successfully with a large number of placings and wins.

In the last three years whilst racing a mildly-worked 20-valve 1.6l Toyota at national level, I was having to have the gearbox completely stripped at least every two rounds due to the extremely high wear and tear. This was a fully worked 'box with every trick bit that I could get my hands on. On top of the gearbox stresses, the added wear and tear to the CV joints and driveshafts was huge when compared to when I ran exactly the same car in class 3 with a worked Suzuki GTI motor. The added torque that comes along with a 2 litre motor will mean the costs of going racing will be increased dramatically, putting many people either out of the class, or even worse, out of racing all together.

I note that someone here mentioned that with all of the A-Arm cars now running in class 2 that it was only fair to have the engine size increased up to 2 litre. Why? The owners of these vehicles have made the decision that they would be more competitive in the current class if they had a car with bigger and better suspension. That is their choice, and if that means that they in turn have to compromise a little in outright straight-line speed because they are a little heavier, then that is their problem. They can more than make up for this difference by being able to travel at a higher pace through the rougher terrain.

How close to class 1 do you want to see class 2 run? If you have a look at the times from this years Australian Championship rounds, you would see that at Hyden Chris Coultard won soome sections outright (faster than class one jimco's), and he, along with a few others, have been very competitive in the top ten outright at most rounds.

No, if this change goes through it will only put the class out of reach of more competitors, dwindling our numbers even further.

I get the feeling that this push is coming from those people who have the newer, larger A-Arm vehicles who want to get their power-to-weight ration back to where it was when they had their smaller cars. The class 3 change made sense... this change doesn't.