At the February meeting of the NSW Off Road Advisory Panel the following motion was passed; NSW ORAP proposes a PRO Buggy Single Seat Class for comment from competitors with a view to incorporating it in 2010 NSW Off Road Championship. In order for this proposal to proceed it requires comment and feedback from all within the NSW Off Road Racing fraternity to gauge whether there is support for the proposal or not. The NSW Off Road Panel has no wish to impose new rules upon our sport that have no favour or support but the result of the class re-structure, within the NSW Off Road Championship, has been a disproportionate number of vehicles, both two seat and single seat, ending up in Pro Buggy class at each event. Creating a Pro Buggy Single Seat Class would go a long way towards even out the numbers of entrants in each of the buggy classes, at State Championship events. Please return your comments, replies, suggestions or other to; NSW ORAP
PO Box 4020
RATHMINES.NSW 2283
or email to;
jeff@myisp.net.au or suemcintosh246@bigpond.com
after reading this my under stand is the class would run to pro class rules with engines to 6000cc. i'm thinking that there should be a pro lite class of single seater for all the people with out the huge dollar engines to have a chance. of course i don't have a buggy at all at the moment so my option doesn't count
Seeing as there are more a/arm cars coming out each year would it be better to split up your pro-class into sub classes of a/arm and non a/arm cars. Just a thought.
-- Edited by FOA Prolite on Monday 16th of March 2009 02:37:48 PM
We already have enough classes, and whats the point of having two different classes (again) for the same spec of car??? AORCOM made the decision a couple of years ago to combine at the time classes 1 and 9. In my opinion it was and still is the right decision...
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It`s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission
I have always thought there should be a PRO BEAM class at all levels of the sport Be it single or two seats. There are still plenty of good fast beam cars around that you might see return to the national level of the sport . We all know that the level of todays A-ARM cars is well and beyond that of any beam car. so why not make a class for them ? PRO CLASS will always be PRO CLASS even a first timer will be able recognise that, witch is what AORCOM wanted and have achieved. Imagine another 15-20 cars at National rounds. So what if they are just another buggy class. Look at the bigger picture. Another 20 entry fees, another 20-40 families involved, another 20+ hotel/motel booking in the host town and more than likely the next generation of PRO CLASS drivers. The cost being a couple more $20 dollar trophys on sunday afternoon.
As I now race in the NSW State Championship and have been involved in it all my life. I thought I would put my 2 cents worth in. After competing in every round of the state championship for 3 years now. 1 year with the old class structure and 2 years with the new class structure.
To me for State Championship Level competition the new class structure is crap! Of course Im not saying this would be the case for National Level Competition.
And I quess thats why the Propsal is for the NSW Off Road State Championship and NOT the Australian Off Road Championship.
But in 2006 at a State championship event there was a very equal amount of cars in each class. Making the competion in Class and Outright much more exciting I feel.
I feel the way the class structure affected National Level Competion was in no way the same as it affected NSW State Level.
The simple fact was that there was as many Single seat Race cars (Class 9) as there was higher powered 2 seat race cars (Class 1). And one having one seat and the other having two, Means to me, they are not the same car. And each class could run what ever engine they please up to a certain cc. So engine size for either class wasn't an issue before.
You could run a 2L aspro sigma motor up against a SR20 Turbo in either Class 1 or Class 9.
So I believe the propsal is simple, just have a class for the Single seat buggies (Class 9 -##### ) and a class for the 2 seat buggies (Class 1,2,3 - Pro Buggy, Super 1650, Sportsman).
Its 1 seat or 2 seats. With what ever engine you got.
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For men who do it well Racing is life, everything else is just waiting around...
Steve McQueen
Spot on Rusty, its got nothing to do with AORCom or what works in other states, its about what works for us in NSW. True, there are to many classes in our sport, but in NSW only the buggy classes are represented anyway, with the exception of 3 or 4 tin tops
Just one thing-if this does go ahead, i feel that the single seat class should be for all single seaters regardless of engine capacity, just as it was.
I like the idea lets do it!
...if I was to take out the passengers seat of my car would I be in the single seat class or the 2 seat class???
Maybe i`m missing something....... how did classes 1 and 9 being combined affect the nsw championship an a negative way, apart from there being more competition for the pro class trophy`s??? I think there is merit in the idea of allowing single seat buggy`s of lower engine capacities into super 1650 to run with the 2 seaters.... And in my opinoin the beam cars that don`t want to run in pro class have the option to run very comptitively in pro lite with an engine change.( new generation v6`s probably produce more useable power than older turbo motors anyway.) (beam car won the national pro lite championship last year), and are the beam pro buggy`s staying away from nationals because they don`t beleive they can win???? Just remember its called RACING not WINNING...
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It`s easier to ask for forgiveness than permission
For what its worth, I believe that instead of diluting a very strong class (Pro) we should start with strengthening the weaker classes like combining Extreme and Production 4WD, Extreme and Performance 2WD, merge Clubman into Super 1650. This would cut our classes from 9 to 6. With the proviso that if there were sufficient from the individual classes they could separate.
I think its a little harsh saying that we are scared to race. Personally I race against every car that enters, not just class mates. But why should 2 or 3 classes "RACE" with 10 or more cars in their class, and others "WIN" because they are the only car in their class. If we can even out the numbers of entrants in the classes, its fair for everyone. At the end of the day, the same faces will still line up at the start line , and I still want to beat them all regardless of class.
A few dumb questions... Can we just go and change the class structure in NSW without AORCom approval? Will all the class champions be CAMS recognised?
DP, I think that they are adding single seat class, not changing Pro Class. So I think I'm right in saying that if you take the Navigators seat out of a 2 seat car, you would run in Pro Class/Pro Lite as a single seater....
We put all the effort in to get to the events. We dont show up with the view of not racing and not winning.
A class change such as this propsal isn't going to affect Outright results at a State event. As you said Azteck, all the same cars on the grid. It just levels the playing field in class results. Instead of 20 Pro Class Cars 10 Super 1650 Class Cars and 6 Sportsman Class. It would be 10 Pro Class, 10 Single Seat Class, 10 Super 1650 Class, 10 Sportsman.
I will note on a personal level that I really enjoy Off Road Racing because of the Variety, The Number of Classes and How different from any other motorsport it is. It doesnt matter how you want to build an off road race car, How much money you have or how you drive. You will have a fare go at a position at an event. (whether its an A-Arm or a Beam Car) There is no need to make Off Road Racing like V8 Supercars. Especially NSW State Level.
And it has Nothing to do with the National Championship or Competition at all. So it doesnt matter what the results in Australian Competion are. The proposal was put forward for the NSW State Championship Only.
Azteck,
And for your 2 questions I know the person I have to check that with to get an accurate answer so ill let you know. Im not exactly sure who the NSW State panel has to go through now after the CAMS Restructure.
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For men who do it well Racing is life, everything else is just waiting around...
Steve McQueen
Great discussion topic... I can race (prolite) with 1 or 2 seats, but I choose to use 2 because I find it more fun!
But I cant understand why things need to be changed/confused at NSW state level while the rest of aussie complies with the current requirements.
Dusteater has hit the nail on the head!
The only benefit? that would come out of splitting the class is that an extra 3 entrants will get trophies, but those entrants will still have the same outright placings (what do you class as winning?). Or maybe the higher entrant classes could have trophies to 6th place (mmm, sarcasm)?
In a couple of years this whole problem might not exist, then do we change it back to current classes?
If people are racing for the sole purpose of a trophy then maybe they could drop to a lower entrant number class, therefore boosting the numbers of that class.....problem solved!
With clubman ( class 6 ) no more at the end of this year it takes away another class where single seaters can run - have you thought about lobbying to allow single seaters into 1650 at a national level to give them 3 classes to race in and help even numbers up and also providing a class that may suit some chassis types better?
the single seater guy,s were not asked if we wanted changes 2 years ago ,we purchased/build cars with one seat because class 9 was were we wanted to race. as for it being different in a couple of years I can't see it nothing has in the last 2
-- Edited by 136 on Monday 23rd of March 2009 06:49:37 PM
