Will this destroy Extreme 2WD class??

car568 · In rehab

RE: Will this destroy Extreme 2WD class??

BAJAs RULE · In rehab

I thought Az did a pretty good job of revealing who it is.

car568 · In rehab

After thinking about it a little more your absolutely correct. THX!

This is out of context with this current thread but Az mentioned Engine Capacity, I agree don't increase them but I would love to see a leveling of the playing field.

A 3.0L V6 with 1 bar boost is effectively a 6.0L engine, now if that thing runs up to 2 bar it's effective displacement is around 9.0L. The current rules around Turbo engines are far to simple and require some attention.

Let the discussions begin.

-- Edited by car568 on Friday 3rd of April 2009 09:22:29 PM

TOYOTAPOWR · In rehab

At least 2 teams that have flown the V8 flag have decided if you can't beat 'em , join 'em and changed to TT V6's.
I can't see the rules being tweaked regarding a reduction in turbo motor capacity and I don't see how you can limit allowable boost, and police it. If the playing field needs to be levelled the only two options I can see are restrictor plates for the turbo cars or more capacity for the normally aspirated cars.

obr184 · Forum Junkie

If the Hyden entry list is anything to go by its the Western boys. I beleive they have landed a good sponsorship deal and good on them.

I can assure all of you this is purely from a marketing point of you and is nothing to do with the points. But so what if it is. These rules have been in place for a number of years now and its only now that someone has used them to thier advantage you are kicking up dust about it. If this is such a big worry of yours then why didnt you protest 6 or 7 years ago when the rule was passed???

But from a marketing point of view it makes complete sense. What do you think easier to market, an F-150 or a grasshopper/beach buggy/open wheel looking thing???

procrastination · Forum Junkie

why dont we all just go racing
thats what its all about isnt it if some ones faster do something to go faster or just enjoy what everyones here for racing compared to all other forms of motorsport off road racing really has no rules/paraty (i think thats how u spell it) untill that changes nothing will change.
and paraty/rule thing is the buety of offroad (for a new comer anyway) where the bloke with no $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ casn still be relativly competitive with someone with lots of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
hope this makes sense
ive had a few of those motivation bottles
happy days

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

I don't think you can go past aztecks comment, if it looks like a truck, its a truck.
And yeah, chris has given the car affectionatly known as the black bitch a birthday and dropped a chev body on it. Mickey thomson would love it!
As for engine size, I reckon its fine, the turbo cars have been at the top of the tree for ages with the exception of bently. We've got good numbers at events, the sport is healthy, I like boobies. Its all good! Don't change a thing!

BAJAs RULE · In rehab

random!!!!, but good on you.

MARTIN OFF ROAD · Forum Junkie

My car would look good with a nissan 350z body on it. but i hate weight the car has put on too much as it is. smile

car568 · In rehab

Wolf wrote:

I don't think you can go past aztecks comment, if it looks like a truck, its a truck.
And yeah, chris has given the car affectionatly known as the black bitch a birthday and dropped a chev body on it. Mickey thomson would love it!
As for engine size, I reckon its fine, the turbo cars have been at the top of the tree for ages with the exception of bently. We've got good numbers at events, the sport is healthy, I like boobies. Its all good! Don't change a thing!

Glad to hear it Wolf, people have been asking questions. - LOL

car568 · In rehab

TOYOTAPOWR wrote:

At least 2 teams that have flown the V8 flag have decided if you can't beat 'em , join 'em and changed to TT V6's.
I can't see the rules being tweaked regarding a reduction in turbo motor capacity and I don't see how you can limit allowable boost, and police it. If the playing field needs to be levelled the only two options I can see are restrictor plates for the turbo cars or more capacity for the normally aspirated cars.

Yeah I don't know how it can be done. Maybe somebody else has some ideas?

I would imagine that a revy 6.0L LS2 behind a 6 or 5 speed tranaxle would be nice. However that engine wouldn't work well behind a 3 spd auto in a truck/truggy. Maybe up the limit depending on overal weight and transmission type could work ? It's just a suggestion, happy to hear other people thoughts on this.

Almighty · Regular Poster

car568 wrote:

I would imagine that a revy 6.0L LS2 behind a 6 or 5 speed tranaxle would be nice. However that engine wouldn't work well behind a 3 spd auto in a truck/truggy. Maybe up the limit depending on overal weight and transmission type could work ? It's just a suggestion, happy to hear other people thoughts on this.

Why wouldn't this engine work in a truck with a 3 speed. Most trucks run a 3000+ Stall. Yes we have been down this road before dyno engine so you get get correct stall speed.

car568 · In rehab

Do they?

I only run a 2350 rpm stall and I am very happy with that, there is also a lot of extra heat to deal with in running a large stall.

I have consciously built my engine with that stall in mind. good bottom end with strong mid range power it starts dropping off at around 5500 - 6000 rpm.

There still a limit, I wouldn't like trying to drive a truck with say a V8 super car spec 5.0l there's a motor with 650BHP and pretty much a 2500rpm usealble powerband 5000 - 7500rpm, of course this is an extreme.

50 cents · Regular Poster

In my opinion I think there are a lot of people out there that truly don"t understand what class 4 is honestly all about,with comments like there is little difference between a buggy and a truck just goes to show the little of mechanical knowledge they think they might have.Think about how well any buggy would go if it had to run a 3 to 4 foot tail shaft with the motor in the front or rear.Why molelester with this class leave it alone.There are a lot of passionate people in this class who dedicate a lot of time and money here,because someone is a sponser and has a sponser (which is a credit to them) should also respect there fellow competitors and the rules.MY OPINION ONLY

LIAbillity · Rehab Dropout...

could the same thing be done with an extreme 4wd ( class 8 ) ?

after seeing that car from the middle east in the last dirt comp ,
it would have better grip , a less stressed drive line ,

Trekka273 · sponsor

50 cents wrote:

In my opinion I think there are a lot of people out there that truly don"t understand what class 4 is honestly all about,with comments like there is little difference between a buggy and a truck just goes to show the little of mechanical knowledge they think they might have.Think about how well any buggy would go if it had to run a 3 to 4 foot tail shaft with the motor in the front or rear.Why molelester with this class leave it alone.There are a lot of passionate people in this class who dedicate a lot of time and money here,because someone is a sponser and has a sponser (which is a credit to them) should also respect there fellow competitors and the rules.MY OPINION ONLY

From what I understand, they have rexpected the rules and they meet with those rules. I am sure that if they do not meet the rules then the scrutineers will pick that up.

The only reason that I have mentioned the trophy trucks in relation to this topic is not because I think they are the same, because they are obviously not. However, in my opinion, I odn't think that a buggy with a body on it is suddenly going to come out an dominate the class when you have trophy trucks, etc running alongside them in the same class. There are arguably other vehicles in the class that will still dominate the buggy, given that they don't break, etc.

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

This sbject is gold. Everything old is new again. Some of us are old enough to remember the "Peco Star" ute. A buggy with an oldsmobile V8, VW transaxle etc, topped with a Datsun ute body. There was also another thing that I think was a Mazda sedan complete with rear mounted VW engine & the "Stinger" sticking out through the boot. Talking early 80's.

Maurie Fuller · Forum Junkie

LIAbility
I have not seen anything purpose built, that tests the rules in Extreme 4wd.
It could be an awsome concept. 4 wd buggies were considered by the National Panel but got little support, even though they were very successful in Europe.

Azteck · In rehab

The truck at the centre of this debate is legal!!

There is a big difference between a buggy and a truck...the panels!

If there are so many people out there so passionate about the class, why is the class so poorly represented at all levels?

Our sport will be televised this year, how do we go about explaining to the audience that some trucks have to run in the buggy class because they dont have a tailshaft...but if you have a porsche body on a buggy with CVs its ok to run in the truck class because the driver wears red undies...while we are talking of tailshafts. My lack of mechanical knowledge is now so obvious, as I built a buggy with a tailshaft...I'm so dumb!

Anyway, when did Extreme 2wd become the truck class, I thought it was for sedans.

The other thing I find difficult to understand is how most of the trucks that race here are not avalible in Australia eg Chevys and Toyota Tundras.

Take away the freedom that off road racing provides and we just become the same as all the other forms of motorsport. I think it was Curt Leduc that said "we aren't engineers we are imagineers"...beautiful.

The Peco Star ute was awesome btw.

jones off road · Rehab Dropout...

Ohhhhh Azteck....................I cannot believe the things you say sometimes..............but this time I completely agree with everything you've said on the subject!

Even though I am not involved in this class, I cannot understand why this dicussion exists, the rules have been obvious for a long time, no-one is breaking them, the person in question has only the best interest of the sport at heart. Anyone who wants to, can build whatever they like to suit the rules, and it would appear that more people are going the 'trophy truck/space frame' anyway to suit.

I have raced sedans, baja, class 2 and 1, and now I own an A-arm prolite
(10yrs old and now outdated). I remember the big advancment of modifying from swingarm to IRS rear ends, OME to Bilstein, Rio strenghtend steel wheels to centerlines, carby to fuel injection.....its called progress!

If we were to regulate this class more, then maybe we should allow a pro buggy class for ''floorpan'' buggies!

mk5 luva · Forum Junkie

Azteck is spot on and the bottom line is the car is legal.

From a marketing/sponsorship point of view its far more joe public recognisable.Its always been a bit F1 and V8 supercars the buggy truck comparison, everybody thinks the trucks are tough irrespective of what you race. Whats going to help sell tyres, pretty easy choice huh.

I think in this case, all of the intentions are in the best interest of the sport. I also think that we should be respectful of all the things that they have done for lifting the profile of off road racing. Chris has more enthusiasm for the sport than a teenage boy chasing his 1st shag!!!!

Car is legal biggrin

SANDMAN · Forum Addict

Don't mean to be a drag but please correct me if I am wrong as its been awhile since I read the regs, but doesn,t extreme 2wd cars have to have the engine either side of the centre line of wheelbase that the engine position was origanaly intended, if the engine is rear mounted then tell me when Chev bought out a rear engined ute, also does it state in the regs that has to be 500 of the vehicles sold in Australia or was that just for performance 2wd.
Don't get me wrong but I love seeing these new cars & the more the better, love seeing technology change & the Western boy's have done more for the sports exsposure than anyone, their should be classes to suit all off roaders as long as they meet safety regs, I suppose it is all up to scrutineers interpretation.

Good luck to all this year & safe racing.

SANDMAN · Forum Addict

Found them, here some photo's from the legendary Peco Star ute article.

FULLSCALE · Forum Addict

Hi all. Just after your interpretation of SR 2.2.4 as part of Extreme 2WD regulations in regard to this car. Just after your ideas not bagging the car in question. I wonder if it's just the way I read it thats the issue.

Trekka273 · sponsor

FULLSCALE wrote:

Hi all. Just after your interpretation of SR 2.2.4 as part of Extreme 2WD regulations in regard to this car. Just after your ideas not bagging the car in question. I wonder if it's just the way I read it thats the issue.

I stand to be corrected, as the language of that specific point is a bit beyond me, but I think that is just meaning that you can't have the engine in the centre of the chssis doesn't it? I could be way off...

SANDMAN · Forum Addict

Yep finally took time to read regs, it appears the regs & I can remember a discussion on it some time ago have been changed so engine can be mounted either front or rear aslong as it doesn't go across centre line of wheelbase. So the car in question is just as legal as Bennett truck.

I think they discust & changed a few years ago so American type trophy trucks can be run.
Like i said all is up to the interpretation of the scrutineer as I have seen a few good barney's over eligabilty of certain vehicles.

-- Edited by SANDMAN on Friday 10th of April 2009 08:53:03 PM

In rehab

If it takes some body panels to get the public motivated into spending their bucks then it shouldn't matter whats under them, I saw a rear engined 2wd 'Hummer' do really well in the Dakar, I bet GM were stoked, & does anybody really think the cars they see at Bathurst are even remotely like the ones in the showroom. But they still sell cars based on race results.

50 cents · Regular Poster

God help us ,you can imagine what will happen next! class 2 and 3 buggies will want to become trophy trucks and then start crying like babies about engine capacities and want a mini-truck class. Putting truck panels on a buggie is like having sex with your mates wife, often talked about and wanting to do it BUT NEVER SHOULD BE DONE.

oz truck · Forum Addict

I have been looking at this topic and hear is my reply.
It makes me mad that a buggy can put panels on and run in class 4
I have been racing TRUE trucks for more years then I can remember.
It has always been hard to keep up with the buggys also hard on the truck, driver and the pocket.
But when I compet against a true class 4 I have at least got a chance
I have even been 402 once.
But if buggys that look like a truck are aloud to come in class 4 it will kill it. There is enough classes out there for any type of buggy why and how can this be good for the sport.
I see coments that Gallard will not care.
But newsflash there are many more in class 4 then him.
Don't forget about state and club racers as well.
I live for my off-road and my class 4. So does my family and close friends. We have been rebuilding my truck every weekend for 12 months so I can try and get up to the top end off class 4.
All CAMS has to do is go back to the old rules the origional engine/ gearbox and final drive configuration for the body type.
I need help with this can anyone tell me how can I stop my class from dying.

tumbleweed · Forum Junkie

So maybe I should take the supercharger off my 3.5lt stadium truck and run in Pro Lite then? Panels and All. - that would confuse the public and sponsors.

I have seen the car and it is pretty blatently a buggy with panels on (it still has the buggy panels underneath) It does seem to fit the rules though and I am all for more competiton and agree that Chris has a massive enthuisiasm for the sport.

I just think the regs need to draw the line more tightly, but I havent even begun to consider how. A few mates of mine jokingly refer to the classes as tailshaft and non tailshaft classes. It helps clear up a few "odd" cars that are in classes that dont really fit. Maybe it has some merit, but we dont have any porsches running here in WA.

-- Edited by tumbleweed on Tuesday 14th of April 2009 07:14:07 PM