Will this destroy Extreme 2WD class??

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

RE: Will this destroy Extreme 2WD class??

Di_405 · Forum Addict

I was waiting for your reply Gary :)

BAJAs RULE · In rehab

Yay! 4 pages

come on 5

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Carbyman · sponsor

Wolf wrote:

well... when I was in singapore.... :p

Look for the adams apple

But if i had the funds i would be off to see spaz to get one built top result at finke Truck that is

-- Edited by Carbyman on Friday 19th of June 2009 08:23:27 PM

Azteck · In rehab

Di_405 wrote:

"if it looks like a truck, than it's a truck"?????

that is questionable.

If it looks like a woman is that always the case??????????

doesnt look quite right but its wearing a dress so it must be.

Would you take that risk???

The original driveline of the vehicle you are representing should be maintained.

Good point Di_405, personally I wouldn't take the risk either...but then again don't knock it until you've tried it!

The original driveline should be maintained.....hmmm

So for years we have seen Subaru powered Porsches, Chev powered Toyotas, Toyata powered VWs and god help us Ford powered Nissans, and not a peep from anyone??

Everyone I've spoken to that calls themselves "traditional" class 4 competitors give me a different view of what they think makes a truck a truck. So uintil you guys get that sorted I'm sticking with my original statement.

Another thing that troubles me with this is that everybody is starting to use the term "Trophy Truck".  I think this comes from the SCORE truck class in the USA which happens include mid engined trucks with V drives...(don't see to many of those in the Chevrolet specification brochures) AND wait for it, rear engined buggies with truck bodies on them...shock, horror, what a disgrace!

It would appear that our American friends, who we all look to so fondly for technology and developement here in Australia, have adopted the simple rule ....If it looks like a truck then its a truck!

btw... I'm never going to Singapore with you again Garry!

Di_405 · Forum Addict

Di_405 wrote:

"if it looks like a truck, than it's a truck"?????

that is questionable.

If it looks like a woman is that always the case??????????

doesnt look quite right but its wearing a dress so it must be.

Would you take that risk???

The original driveline of the vehicle you are representing should be maintained.

Sorry I'll rephrase that,

The original driveling configuration!

as that is the issue we are discussing I didnt realise I would have to spell it out.

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

Damn it Az, i already bought non refundable tickets!!! Hehe.

Az, Slow, its time for you to put bodies on youre cars and go into your properly defined class.

oz truck 507 · Forum Addict

if everybody saw what finke Scrutineering was like it had all the real trucks next to each other it looked great then you see the last thing in the row and it was a buggy

.

what is going to stop all the big guys for example fellows, pinto and the rest from putting a truck body on and racing in class 4. there is nothing stopping that from happing. it would distroy the class thats why we want to draw the line with one in the class. his in now we can't kick him out.

if your sponsor wanted a to sponsor a truck. build or buy truck. don't try to wreck the truck class with a buggy.

The original driveling configuration is engine, gearbox, tailshaft and diff. not just engine and gearbox.

people put heaps of money in the trucks to win class and to finish in front of heaps of buggys.

if the bucks only want a trophy go down a class if you don't have chance in pro.

bucks means (a buggy truck)

people will just give up class 4 and go to another car class.

why don't we just make a truggy class for the buggys with truck panels and naked trucks make it class 10.

can't we all agree that there should never be a buggy in the class.

SR 2.2.2 COACHWORK/CHASSISThe body must be derived from a production automobile and substantially resemble it.

The height, width and length may not be reduced from that of the bodyshell from which the vehicle is derived.

with this out of the cams manual. it says the width of the bodyshell may not be reduced from which the vehicle is derived.

but hasn't the buggy in class 4 have the panels at front and back the width has been cut for the wheels.

-- Edited by oz truck 507 on Sunday 21st of June 2009 12:22:42 AM

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

I dunno about about creating another class, but the rest is a well thought out arguement quoting the manual, though is that for class 4 or 5?

If youre still planning on talking to AORCom then thats your argument.

oz truck 507 · Forum Addict

it was in the class 4 part of the manual.

i was only trying to think something for the truggys

car568 · In rehab

I wouldn't worry about the truggy's we always have class 4 as an option. The truggy's I am aware of wouldn't be considered an issue in class 4 as they maintain what is being called out as the correct drive line configuration. If I wanted to through away $8k on class panels and paint I would give it ago. Which was my original reason for building a Truggy in the first place.

Az, what's your issue with ford powered nissans? furious

-- Edited by car568 on Sunday 21st of June 2009 12:09:31 PM

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

I was just taking the piss actuyally. Ive got no issue with what division anyone races in, as long as theyre racing!

car568 · In rehab

Question for those that were there, how did the buggy/truck in question fair at Finke?

This setup hasn't guaranteed these guys a podium finish from what I can see.

Wolf, nice to see you guys have finished the buggy how was it?

Trekka273 · sponsor

Why would Dave Fellows, etc want to put panels on their buggy and run in Class 4? Nothing against class 4 at all, but what advantage would there be for them to do this? Besides spending $8-10K on body panels, there is no advantage to them that I can see.

And in all honesty, with the way class 4 is going with the high quality vehicels running, is there any advantage to running a "buggy with panels" in the class? I can't see one. The trucks now are running suspension that is as good, if not better, then a lot of the buggies. They have strong drivetrains, in many cases probably stronger then the buggy version, etc. I don't see what the issue is here, but then I am not up with all of the rules, etc, so if someone could explain, that would be great.

I think if putting panels on the buggy to get sponsorship means you can keep racing, bring in extra exposure to the sport, etc, then it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

car568 · In rehab

AGREED!!!

oz truck 507 · Forum Addict

but the point is if somebody goes bad in there class they don't have to come to class 4.

i was saying fellows as an example.

what about like if your in the top ten and your not winning in pro but your in front of the trucks. you think if u put panels on your buggy and win in class 4.

for 10 years there has been trucks in class 4. there has never been a buggy why have any in the class now?

why not build or buy a truck to get the sponsorship.

it does cost 8k for panels its only 3k and paint can $500

the diffs, gearboxs and engines still break in trucks look at millicent 2007 all the trucks was out by the 1st lap with broken diffs and gearboxs. but the buggys don;t have to worry about broken diffs.

boss truck · Rehab Dropout...

oz truck 507 wrote

for 10 years there has been trucks in class 4. there has never been a buggy why have any in the class now?

l do believe and it is probaly before your time that Baja's were class 4 for 20 years before trucks. Why did trucks have to come in and ruin the class. Oh l can speak from experience as well as l used to have a rotary powered baja way back when until the class was ruined by interlopers.
l do believe that class 4 is for the trucks now but why didn't the rules change for bajas until last year so that they could be competitive.

-- Edited by boss truck on Sunday 21st of June 2009 03:58:33 PM

-- Edited by boss truck on Sunday 21st of June 2009 03:59:09 PM

Trekka273 · sponsor

oz truck 507 wrote:

but the point is if somebody goes bad in there class they don't have to come to class 4.

i was saying fellows as an example.

what about like if your in the top ten and your not winning in pro but your in front of the trucks. you think if u put panels on your buggy and win in class 4.

for 10 years there has been trucks in class 4. there has never been a buggy why have any in the class now?

why not build or buy a truck to get the sponsorship.

it does cost 8k for panels its only 3k and paint can $500

the diffs, gearboxs and engines still break in trucks look at millicent 2007 all the trucks was out by the 1st lap with broken diffs and gearboxs. but the buggys don;t have to worry about broken diffs.

According to a post earler in this topic by the owner of the vehicle in question, he spent $10K putting the body on the buggy.

If you are running in the top 10, or even top 20, in a buggy, why would you go and put a truck body on your car? What is to gain, a $20 trophy when it costs $10K to put the panels on? I honestly cannot see anyone who runs a good quality buggy doing this conversion just so that they can win a class trophy, there would have to be way more to it then that, as there was in this case when it enabled the owner to gain sponsorship.

And even though the current crop of buggies may not necessarily have to worry too much about diffs during a race, they still have a lot of problems with gearboxes, driveshafts, CV joints, etc.

And would a buggy really be so much quicker or better then a truck? With absolutely no dis-respect to the car in question, it was behind a number of trucks during the last couple of races wasn't it?

jones off road · Rehab Dropout...

Firstly....I want to congratulate Spaz on building a very impressive 'Aussie Built' truck? that has proven its worth already and should be recognised by all 'Aussies' as a result we should all be proud of. It sometimes seems that we would be prouder of a 'turn-key American Jimco' winning events on home turf......how about we recognise some of our own achievments/fabrication talent? (not taking away anything from some of the aussie buggy builders, they also deserve support, but different thread!)

Secondly....the Grants are putting forward great arguments (like the female comparison btw), but so are many others.

Thirdly....I think the new class names say it all "PERFORMANCE 2WD" & "EXTREME 2WD"

It really could'nt be that hard to separate them....could it?

My 20 cents worth (2 bob is for the oldies)-------Keep original engine configurations for that type of 'bodied' vehicle either side of the centerline from the factory produced body style!

oz truck 507 · Forum Addict

couple of points.
1st panels for our ford ranger cost 3k and paint 2k. it wouldn't cost 10k for those chev panels because there is less fiberglass in those panels.

2nd the bajas are not around any more you only see 1 or 2 a year at any nationals or state races. if trucks didn't come to class 4. they wouldn't be around any more because the tracks are getting to rough for them.

3rd not change from buggy to truck for a 20dollar trophy. there is also price money what can be taken from the real trucks.

4th the engine should always be in the front of a truck not in the rear of it.

5th why not just go down a class like i said before.

6th people will just give up the sport if they know if all the classes are buggys.

7th its good how the classes are now there is the 4 classes for the buggy to play in and 4 for the cars to play in. the buggys don't need class 4 to change to a buggy class as well.
thats all my points

-- Edited by oz truck 507 on Sunday 21st of June 2009 08:49:36 PM

Trekka273 · sponsor

oz truck 507 wrote:

couple of points.
1st panels for our ford ranger cost 3k and paint 2k. it wouldn't cost 10k for those chev panels because there is less fiberglass in those panels.

2nd the bajas are not around any more you only see 1 or 2 a year at any nationals or state races. if trucks didn't come to class 4. they wouldn't be around any more because the tracks are getting to rough for them.

3rd not change from buggy to truck for a 20dollar trophy. there is also price money what can be taken from the real trucks.

4th the engine should always be in the front of a truck not in the rear of it.

5th why not just go down a class like i said before.

6th people will just give up the sport if they know if all the classes are buggys.

7th its good how the classes are now there is the 4 classes for the buggy to play in and 4 for the cars to play in. the buggys don't need class 4 to change to a buggy class as well.
thats all my points

-- Edited by oz truck 507 on Sunday 21st of June 2009 08:49:36 PM

I can only go on what the person who did the conversions said, and that is that they spent $10K to put the obdy on. That was written in this post.

Maybe if the trcuks didn't go in to class 4, maybe there wouldn't be a class 4. Who knows? I guess the guys who were running baja's back when they allowed trucks in to the class probably thoguht the same things that you are thinking now?

I don't think anyone in our sport really races for the prize money... in the vast majority of races the prize money is very small or non-existent. I would think that Finke has the most prize money on offer and a class winner gets $1000. Not a bad amount, but enough to make someone switch classes?

I no longer race, so I don't know if this is right or wrong, and it isn't up to me to judge, but I am still trying to work out what the real problem is. What performance advantage does the car in question have over the trucks?

delete · In rehab

Trekka273 wrote:

Why would Dave Fellows, etc want to put panels on their buggy and run in Class 4?

Fellows is probably not a good example as his team have a good association with TRD and one could argue that a Hilux or similar body might be a promotional advantage to Toyota. To the average punter a buggy is a buggy (?) but if it looks like a truck it must be a truck - see V8 Supercar.
No offense to any Baja owners past or present but I think they came perilously close to self extinction and no evidence of a return in numbers whereas stadium trucks - later Extreme 2WD were growing in number. I guess thats evolution.

LIAbillity · Rehab Dropout...

do they make baja fiberglass body's ,
a buggy with a fiberglass baja body would still have it's origanl
engine / driveline configuration wouldn't it ,

BAJAs RULE · In rehab

when the stadium trucks were introduced to class 4, cams also threaten the closure of the class if numbers were less than 6 per race the following year, now I don't want to admit to being an old racer, but back then it was a lot of money to spend 10k on a race car especially if the class may not continue, add to this your Baja had to run with its restrictions against virtually unrestricted buggies with panels, hell they couldn't even fit navigators in some of them. And yes they are buggies with panels, nothing about them is production car. In my opinion the people complaining about this should change class, as they sound like they might miss out on a trophy . Otherwise take up the challenge.

-- Edited by BAJAs RULE on Monday 22nd of June 2009 01:05:16 AM

Azteck · In rehab

Wolf wrote:

Az, Slow, its time for you to put bodies on youre cars and go into your properly defined class.

I've just been out in the garage and I think I could fit a Porsche body on without too much modification.

As for Slows car, I've been told that you can't use Buggy rear arms in the Truck class either....explain this to me, please!

Oz Truck 507 needs to remember that it is NOT A TRUCK CLASS, its for sedans which include rear engined vehicles too

Isn't Greg Campbells car a buggy with a body on it...whats the difference??? Buggys can race in your class, its just the style of body that has been chosen that has caused all the fuss....which would give no advantage performance wise what so ever!

Just for the record, In my opinion the buggy truck is best looking car out there.

Seems a little harsh to expect the Baja guys to show up at national events to race against the mighty Trophy Trucks don't you think!

BAJAs RULE · In rehab

I was actually thinking about running Milbrodale, But now am not sure what class I Should run in, maybe run in open class (pro), As it is only the fun I am after and I'd hate to take a trophy off someone more deserving in a truck.
(the chances of that are pretty low but it does seem to be a pretty big issue with some.)

Di_405 · Forum Addict

oz truck 507 wrote:

for 10 years there has been trucks in class 4. there has never been a buggy why have any in the class now?

why not build or buy a truck to get the sponsorship.

it does cost 8k for panels its only 3k and paint can $500

Firstly, for 10 years, how do you remember what was around when you were 6??

Chris did build a truck to get the sponsorship, luckily for him he already had the base for the vehicle just had to add panels

I am not arguing what Chris has done is wrong, he has 100% done the right thing and has stuck within the rules of class 4.

I am arguing the rule change.

regarding price of panels, they do not float in mid air!! as you are aware with the recent rebuild of car 405 there was alot of modification involved in making the new panels fit with all the new brackets ect.

I think what Chris is doing for our sport is fantastic, we need more people like him to help us maintain a strong following into the future.
(hey Chris, can I drive your truck at Rush)

In his position I would have done the same thing.

I (unlike my 6 year old brother at the time) do remember when class 4 changed, I even have Navigated for Warren and had a blast. The Baja's were my favourite class (shh don't tell dad) and I watched the numbers rapidly reduce with the introduction of the trucks.

I know and understand that all the rules we have now for ALL classes will evolve and change with the sports benefit in mind.
I dont even know what the classes are called now, back when I raced they were just numbered 1-9 (makes me feel old)

I do know that people who disagree with any change of the rules do need to take appropriate action to voice there opinion to the powers above. If the rules stay as they are so be it, but if we sit back and do nothing we never have a chance.

All please be aware that my fathers opinion is the same as mine and differs greatly from that of my 16 year old brother.

delete · In rehab

Go for it at Milbrodale Woz.
The Baja guys are in the enviable (?) position of being able to possibly run as a Pro, Prolite, Super1650, Sportsman depending on engine size or in Perf 2WD or in fact Extreme 2WD depending on modifications. So you could start with a basic VW Beetle and end up with a National Championship Class or Outright Winning car simply by developing and evolving your VW i.e. throw money at it.

-- Edited by Dusteater on Monday 22nd of June 2009 06:46:21 PM

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

Or buy a brand spanking new jimco with all the fruit and drop your body on it and weld your floor underneath it and win perf 2wd. :)

LIAbillity · Rehab Dropout...

thats my point gary ,
how cool would a jimco look with a 911 body on it ,

yeah di , you geting old now , lol