And we were nearly up to 6

Does this mean that Nev doesn't want my body anymore?

ok, ok. now you're a junkie can we get back onto the topic? I believe the last OT entry was any car with a diff should leave AORC to run their own series.

I want know when AZ will be putting the RODEO/COLORADO body Panels on?

Sorry mate, no offence intended. I culled some my own as well. Just tryin to keep the spirit of the forum.

Cheerin nev. :)

need to fix the promblem with class 4 before more buggys with truck panels come to the class.
because i heard there is more coming.

maybe there should be a class for the people who don't think they are extreme enough for the extreme class, and call it the claytons class, for the extreme car that doesn't want to run in the extreme class.
Other than that maybe build it to run in production 2wd.
I thought the rules were pretty simple to fit mildly modified or extremely modified.

Attached is on Open letter from Gavin Mickle, if you aren't happy about the  currecnt ruling of  Extreme 2wd don't just talk about it here,  put pen to paper or fingers to the keyboard and contact Gavin in writing,  if anything is to change  your support is needed.

-- Edited by 432 on Tuesday 15th of December 2009 05:10:22 AM

Firstly thanks for the reply Warren, i was actually thinking of ringing you tomorrow to ask for your thoughts etc about this subject but you saved me effort.
I will work though your questions and try to explain our sides point of view.

I too am not a registered national or state competitor this year as i only wish to do selected events that suit work/family commitments and i go to these events purely for the FUN factor of racing Offroad which i have been doing now for nearly thirty years off and on.

Just because it seems to be just my name causing all this forum banter, the real story is that a large majority of the class want something done aswell. I seem to have been gently persuaded by others to be the hit/front man, and if you know me well you would know that this is not my cup of tea so to speak. If only Mr Stansfield was a little younger!

As for the exploiting of the rules, what Mr Western has done, is done and dusted but now surely WE as a class should be able to decide what rules WE want to run under in OUR sport. I won't go any further with that one, blood pressures up.

Stadium trucks- Yes i was involved with stadium trucks when they ran in stadiums but had nothing to do with getting them to run in long course etc if that is what you are asking. To me a Stadium Truck is a truck frame with truck panels on it, a buggy is a buggy frame with buggy panels on it, a truggy is a truck frame with buggy panels on it, a buck is a buggy with truck panels on it and thats how i see it. Other peoples views may differ thats for them to decide.

Now for the hard one!
I did have a big bunch of words written here but i doubt it would have made much sense to anyone except a truck person so i deleted it. Basicly what i'm trying to say is that there are buggy guys and truck guys and there has to be a defining line between them to prevent more of what has already happened. A pro buggy with a truck body of sorts put on top is not what we want more of and all we want to do is make sure it doesn't happen anymore. There has to be some defining of the classes surely or else we may aswell all just run together.
I'm a truck guy and i want to run in a truck class against other trucks, not buggies, thats why i built a truck.
I don't know if that made any sense but i had a go.
One last thing for Extreme 2wd competitors, if you have not been contacted by me please contact me asap.
Regards Gavin Mickle

Cant say I have a solution to the regs ( I am working on that), but I can say that anyone who knows our sport well (competitors and spectators) can take one look at a buggy with truck panels and see that it is a buggy with truck panels and that cant be good for the diversity of the sport.  It seems a shame to start mucking about with rules but I believe it needs to be done. I imagine that the bajas felt the same way when their class was being taken over by trucks.  The difference now is that Class 4 has an increased level of interest with people investing in technology and growth in the class.  I know If championships and class wins were my goal (and at the moment  they are not) I wouldnt be investing in the class if there were 4 or 5 buggies with truck panels running around that I had to chase.

Question

If there was a strong indication that given the right wording of the rules, this was going to be outlawed soon, would the proponents looking at doing this to their buggy reconsider the expense?  or will they do it anyway and then complain if a change is made?

And my understanding of the stadium trucks being let into the class 4 was to keep them in the sport and out of the buggy classes?  Now some of those same buggy racers want to race out of their classes?

-- Edited by tumbleweed on Thursday 17th of December 2009 01:36:26 AM

Just want to point out again that this forum serves absolutely NO official capacity.  If anyone wants something done you'll need to actually go do something.

 

I'd like to point out that Im a fence sitter on this issue, I dont really care who races where as long as we're all racing.  Now that the truggy question has come up I think a cat needs to be dropped in amongst the pigeons:

If a rear engined/transaxle buggy with a body should be racing as a pro buggy (according to some of the opinions here), does a  front engined offroad car with a live rear axle but with no body (just trying to define a truggy) belong in extreme 2wd despite having no bodyshell draped over it?  Surely its only fair that it should go both ways?    That is if the 'whats underneath the skin is what the rules should be based on, not whether it has a body' opinion holds.  Otherwise this entire argument is hypocritical by allowing 'trucks' into a 'buggy' class but not allowing 'buggies' onto a 'truck' class.

Further to that though, truggies have been racing in pro class for ages and no-one has been fussed in the slightest.

Just some food for thought!  Rule changes can be very wide reaching!

car568 wrote:

---

Lets face it the number 1 reason why people aren't concerned about a Truggy competing in Pro Class is that they aren't perceived as a threat.

---

 Maybe not at national level, but at state level yourself and Az are a definately perceived as a threat.  Lets face it, Az won everything at state level last year as a proclass car.  No doubt at state level there are other serious truggy contenders out there in proclass too.

Does anyone care that 'trucks' can race as proclass buggies if they just take the body off?  Im guessing not as its never been brought up before.

*edit*

Just wanted to point out the far reaching affects off rule changes.  For example how the combination of classes 9 and 1 into proclass has taken the wind out of the sails of what was a very competitive class 9 division in NSW.

-- Edited by Wolf on Thursday 17th of December 2009 11:13:29 AM

I don't have a dog in the fight but I was wondering whether Bob Mowbray's Classs 5 unlimited
(US Score class) is able to run in Extreme 2wd?

Given that Pro Class cars are crossing over and running truck panels , the only way I can see to seperate the classes is Front or Rear engine regardless of what they look like.
This means the Porsche and the Bajas will end up in what is now Pro Class but what ever you do not every one will be happy.