Class Structure Going Forward

Trekka273 · sponsor

RE: Class Structure Going Forward

dessert-people · Rehab Dropout...

Stingray 2212 wrote:

Sorry, but it is broke, at a national level only. Let's look at Hyden this year. There were 10 1650's & one sportsman. Out of the 1650's all but one were from WA, & seven out of the ten were competing only in the shorter state component of the event. The one sportsman was from NSW & was a national competitor.

What I propose is that 1650 & sportsman are still recognised exactly the same as they are now, the only difference is that they will only be recognised as a class up to & including state level. Just like class 6 is now. As I said before all national events where possible will contain a shorter state component which will allow you to take part in all aspects of the event. The only difference will be you will pay less & you will do less laps.

The way things are, the only event where this would appear not to be possible is Finke because it is a point to point race with a stop over. It would also require the good folk of Mildura to welcome back us low level competitors as they have elected not to have a state component this year.

Just finally again from Hyden 30 out of the 89 competitors were state only. I think changing the system would not cause a reduction in numbers & could in fact boost entry numbers.

sting

its easy to say that the numbers are down for these classes after the 1 race that is the on the other side of the world ( no offence to w.a. ) you need to look at the end of the year to make any decent comparison on numbers , i dont think the classes need to be stuffed with i think we need to look at entry fees if we want people to race at nationals furious

scooter · Forum Addict

I can only speak for myself way back when NSW had national rounds i raced nationals as there are none left in the state i dont race them. its not that i dont want to travel its just simple maths ,travel to a national 1000"s of klm away and race once or stay close and race serveral times for the same money. there may not be a finacial crisis in the pro class pits but there is in every other section of the pits and the changes being proposed ie 2ltr engines for class 2 JUST MAKES FOR MORE EXPENSE. leave classes alone stable rules make for higher car numbers. CHANGE IS EXPENSIVE and will drive more budget racers away from this great sport.

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

Just to verify, no class change has been proposed. This forum is not official in ANY capacity!

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

Trekka, if 1650 & sportsman are state classes then a state round is the highest level event you compete in. This could, breathe new life into the state races & when the ntional show comes to town as part of a state series, there may be more interest resulting in more entries.

I understand that when you raced you wanted to do as many laps as possible, but things have changed. We may or may not like the changes but that is a whole other subject. The pro cars are so much faster now & there is lots of them. What I propose is sort of a handicap system that will make the state cars finish the event roughly the same time as the national cars.

Desert People, entry fees. I agree that they are a huge issue, how it can cost $400 to enter the pines & $700 to enter Mildura is beyond me. I suppose it's fairly clear which events are interested in budget competitors & which ones are only interested it the big end of town.

tumbleweed · Forum Junkie

As to entry fees, I think it comes to a matter of maths.

I know at Hyden if we did not actively (and by actively I mean massive time commitment for organisers) seek ongoing sponsorship from many parties, we would have to charge an entry fee more like $900 just to break even.

Seems somewhat ironic that many of the sponsors are racers or club members anyway and they effectively dip into their pockets to 'fund' those that want or need the entry fees to be lower. They do it to move the sport forward, but many of the guys that want it lower are still not happy. Costs are a reality and if we dont accept that then we will NOT move forward. If everyone becomes more proffesional (and by that I dont mean spend more money - just run a clean tidy team, treat sponsors and the public right - promote the sport wherever you can - and SUPPORT and appreciate those that are sticking their hands in their pockets!!) then we can get on with it all all levels.

KUSTERRACECO · In rehab

well said jeremy its all about lifting the sports profile and looking after the sponsors and the punters which will benefit all competitors

andyhi696 · Regular Poster

I dont see too much wrong with the current structure with the possible exception of putting all turbo engined cars into pro class. all classes should be on capacity alone.

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

Mildura entry list up. 4 1650's 0 sportsman. That's healthy ?

Trekka273 · sponsor

Stingray 2212 wrote:

Mildura entry list up. 4 1650's 0 sportsman. That's healthy ?

Probably not. But I think that there may be other reasons behind the low entry numbers.

You never mentioned the two entries in Production 4WD, four entries in Extreme 4WD, and four in Performance 2WD.

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

Are you saying that the 4wd & 2wd numbers are good or bad?

jones off road · Rehab Dropout...

Class2 or super1650 has always been a strong class! It has also been probably (in my opinion) the most competitive class.
Sportsman has been struggling for a few years (national & state) and 'might' need some modification!

I feel that after the past history (entry numbers) of 1650's it would be silly to suggest any change. Possibly prolite may 'take' some people away, as it offers a chance to narrow the gap between pro buggies and 1650's, but any suggestion of change is too soon!

With historical low entries in all the bodied classes (national & state), especially production 4WD, why pick on 1650's?............I remember last year when punters were suggesting that prolite was not required, but look at the entries this season!

boss truck · Rehab Dropout...

The size of the entry fee would be a big problem for most 1650 runners. If you look at the cars entered they would be the few chasing the 201 plate for next year.

Trekka273 · sponsor

Stingray 2212 wrote:

Are you saying that the 4wd & 2wd numbers are good or bad?

Just pointing out that the numbers for those classes are very similar to the Super 1650 and Sportsman classes, but you never mentioned them.

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

Production 4wd has always had low numbers, Modified 4wd slightly better. Performance 2wd is mainly a budget class & is heading in the same direction as 1650 & sportsman. So bearing all that in mind, national class structure for the future as follows.

     Pro Class
    Pro Light
     Extreme 2wd
     4wd.

jones off road · Rehab Dropout...

BIG CALL Stingray.........!!!!!!!!!!

What class do you run/support?

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

I run super 1650.

Flat Out Off Road Racing Team · Powerhouse Poster

Western Australia would have to be right up there in numbers for 4wd's with quite a few Production and Extreme 4wd's getting around with more debuting at almost every race. But it is not just strong numbers, they are all quite capable of matching it with the best in Australia Unfortunatley an AORC campaign from WA is quite costly with the long trek across the nullabor.

I feel it would be detrimental to the sport to have classes that run national and classes that only run state. The classes that arent in contention for outrights often are the stepping stones to move into more competitive classes and potentially move up to run the national series.

Cheers, Jason #766

Maurie Fuller · Forum Junkie

Last weekend we held the Wittitrin 200, a state round and round 1 of the long course championships over three events.
The classes were as follows:
13 Pro Class
11 Prolite
10 Super 1650
9 Sportsman class
1 Extreme 2 wd
1 Clubman
45 entries at a state round was very pleasing to our club.
Draw your own concusions as to the lack of numbers in some classes in Nationals.
Travel costs and entry fees or the speed of National tracks?
Who knows but we are pretty happy with how our state racing is going.

Trekka273 · sponsor

Stingray 2212 wrote:

Production 4wd has always had low numbers, Modified 4wd slightly better. Performance 2wd is mainly a budget class & is heading in the same direction as 1650 & sportsman. So bearing all that in mind, national class structure for the future as follows.

Pro Class
Pro Light
Extreme 2wd
4wd.

That leaves a lot of people without a class to run in if they choose to race at one or two of the Nationals that may be relatively close to them. I can't see this structure ever being introduced. At least, i certainly hope it isn't.

TOYOTAPOWR · In rehab

What are the advantages of cutting out classes at national level.I can't think of any but plenty of disadvantages.

king kong · sponsor

The beuty about offroad racing is that the competitors with budget level cars are treated the same and just as important to the make up of the sport as competitors with higher level cars. The way the structure is at the moment is that there is a realistic path to the pinnacle and with gradual class changes. Look at the amount of pro class pro lite extreme two and four wheel drive competitors that started at the more budget classes. If these classes were segregated it would create an us and them mentality which is not what the sport is about. It wuold also make it more difficult for competitors to progress to the outright classes (that is assuming they want to ). So rather than eliminating these classes why not ask the competitors why they are not supporting the national events and change the events to suit...
The sport is a sport of battlers and acheivable for most people so lets keep it that way at state level and national level.

-- Edited by king kong on Thursday 16th of July 2009 05:31:26 PM

Trekka273 · sponsor

king kong wrote:

The beuty about offroad racing is that the competitors with budget level cars are treated the same and just as important to the make up of the sport as competitors with higher level cars. The way the structure is at the moment is that there is a realistic path to the pinnacle and with gradual class changes. Look at the amount of pro class pro lite extreme two and four wheel drive competitors that started at the more budget classes. If these classes were segregated it would create an us and them mentality which is not what the sport is about. It wuold also make it more difficult for competitors to progress to the outright classes (that is assuming they want to ). So rather than eliminating these classes why not ask the competitors why they are not supporting the national events and change the events to suit...
The sport is a sport of battlers and acheivable for most people so lets keep it that way at state level and national level.

-- Edited by king kong on Thursday 16th of July 2009 05:31:26 PM

Couldn't agree more, well said!

procrastination · Forum Junkie

well said king kong

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

King Kong, as you would probably expect I can't agree with a few things you say. Budget competitors are very valuable to the sport & I would argue represent by far the greatest number of people involved in the sport, just not at a national level. I don't agree that the difference between the classes is gradual, you can buy car 201 at the moment for 28k, I would guess a car like Justin Watt's would be worth over 100 & a pointy end pro car close to 200. That's not gradual.
I don't see how segregating classes can make it difficult to progress, under my plan you would be racing your 1650 on the same track at the same event, you would just be doing less laps. Us & them already exists, if you can't see it then you are not looking.
Good idea, let's ask why budget guys don't run nationals (new thread). As for making changes to suit, don't think that can happen as I am guessing most people will say money.
Are you really saying that the guys at the pointy end of nationals are battlers?

heyu · Rehab Dropout...

At the moment you can race in your CLASS at any event,State ,Club or National.
It doesn't matter how much or how little your car is worth,as long as it passes all the relevant bits in the book.Why change it?
Am I missing something!

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

Not true, class 6 has been an up to & including state level only for a few years.

Trekka273 · sponsor

Stingray 2212 wrote:

I don't see how segregating classes can make it difficult to progress, under my plan you would be racing your 1650 on the same track at the same event, you would just be doing less laps.

I don't understand how that is going to help anything. What is to gain by doing this? How would this increase competitor numbers?

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

king kong wrote:

The beuty about offroad racing is that the competitors with budget level cars are treated the same and just as important to the make up of the sport as competitors with higher level cars. The way the structure is at the moment is that there is a realistic path to the pinnacle and with gradual class changes. Look at the amount of pro class pro lite extreme two and four wheel drive competitors that started at the more budget classes. If these classes were segregated it would create an us and them mentality which is not what the sport is about. It wuold also make it more difficult for competitors to progress to the outright classes (that is assuming they want to ). So rather than eliminating these classes why not ask the competitors why they are not supporting the national events and change the events to suit...
The sport is a sport of battlers and acheivable for most people so lets keep it that way at state level and national level.

-- Edited by king kong on Thursday 16th of July 2009 05:31:26 PM

Agree with the others - well said!

Agree with HeyU too - almost any car can enter a national, state or club round if they want as long as it passes scruitneering. why change it?

dessert-people · Rehab Dropout...

king kong wrote:

The sport is a sport of battlers and acheivable for most people so lets keep it that way at state level and national level.

-- Edited by king kong on Thursday 16th of July 2009 05:31:26 PM

im not so sure at national level thats its a battlers sport furious