Brad Prout Didnt seem to have to many problems running with the turbo cars early in the season in a brand new and unsorted car. Maybe the V8 boys should take a leaf out of Brads book and build a fair dinkum engine and use some of the technoligy that runs around every satarday night in sprint cars or on weekends in V8 supercars ( a V8 super car engine is suppose to have 620 hp its only 5ltr and only revs to 7500 rpm ) imagine what a 6ltr reving to say 8000 rpm could do without any of tuning restrictions the 8v supercars have.

Some good points brad did compete  quite successfully against these guys but at this point a 6 litre  atmo car cannot hope to compete sucessfully  regularly with these turbo  guys unless you are prepared to spend at least 60 k on a 6 litre engine and lets face it there are not to many of us that  either   a: have that sort of money    or b : are willing to spend it on an atmo engine when you can buy an engine that makes 750/800 hp at 14psi for half the outlay and will do it all season without even looking at the engine . I totally agree  that there  is heaps of fantastic v8 technology out their but the price to achieve it is sky high , my only argument here is that if we continue to allow the turbo guys this  current capacity without intake restriction sizes, our regulators should now  look at opening up our maximun capacity limit to maybe say 7 litres which would then allow competitors to cost effective performance   reliabilty and some sort of parity  .  The  ls7 chev can be bought anywhere in the us for 11k  brand new in a box  and will make 700hp without any  internal modifications on the standard delco factory computer and run for thousands of miles without even looking at them . Use of these engines would instantly make  trucks more competitive with the buggies and the cost savings are enormous and who doesnt want to keep some more in their pockets  .  Ps ive got a new coswoth 3.5 turbo for sale im going with a chev 6 litre crate engine    love to here some more input

i will be running a ls6 here too. how ever i did look into the v6 turbo motors but nar not for me and would be happy to see some sort of change be it 7000cc or restriction of intake of turbos

this is not about  personal aspirations  i have been lucky enough or maybe god forbid even good enough to win outright in the aorc  in both atmo cars and turbo cars  against  all the current champions so i think my it would be fair and reasonable to say that personal aspirations are not my agenda for this discussion I already posess a new pro car and have the latest turbo engine so it would be easy for me just to go racing and see where the dust settles my argument here is that the rules because of the advancing technologhy are antiquated. If  competitors want to run an atmo engine they are penalised by not being able to compete on equal footing with the turbo cars . My objective if anything in this discussion is that it  would  allow many more people to be competitive by  cost effectively  allowing the use of larger engines . or alternatively  the use of turbo  inlet restrictors which are already in place here in australia by cams and the other governing  bodies  to level up the playing field, so whilst your comment on multiplication factor maybe correct  and it maybe a worldwide calculation of that im not sure , it is simply wrong in the sense that the governing bodies all over the world cams included already use this tool in every facet of motorsport  . So i ask the simple  question why doesnt offroad.     Do you think the turbo guys aspirations will be shattered if they allow atmo engine increases of 1 litre and they will all go scampering up the road to pro lite ,maybe im wrong but i dont think they would give a toss . My cosworth cost 35k it makes 750 hp at 14 ps1 , i can go down to the local gm dealer and buy a crate ls7 engine that will make 700 hp in standard trim on a standard computer with standard wiring and factory sensors all in a box with a warranty  for 11k , my argument here is that many more people are in a position to outlay 11k than 35 k  and a 7 litre engine will still not outperform the current crop of 3.5s by a long shot  but by allowing these larger displacement engines it may just as you say allow some people the opportunity to succeessfully  live out there own personal aspirations and compete  with with current leaders of our sport  but  because of sheer cost they will only remain aspirations . And as you quite correctly state we all have choices and i choose to run in the pro class and i have decided that whilst it would be easier to take on dave and shannon in equally powered cars  it would be much more fun to try and dust them off in something a little more cost effective and with less hp that many more people can afford , maybe a little more rewarding as well .Also your right the multiplication factor was not something cams cooked up one afternoon , it is at least 20 years old and back then all we had was carbys points  and 1.5 litre pulsar engines ( how much fun was that), and thats why cams have changed it in other mixed formulas across australia by introducing inlet restrictors to create parity Where does it say that the pro class is a turbo only formula class  not in any rule book ive read Ps i live beside the brissy airport and have no problem with the planes they were here long before me  cheers  

-- Edited by King Shocks on Tuesday 29th of December 2009 05:40:35 PM

-- Edited by King Shocks on Tuesday 29th of December 2009 05:47:27 PM

-- Edited by King Shocks on Tuesday 29th of December 2009 05:56:39 PM

-- Edited by King Shocks on Tuesday 29th of December 2009 05:57:52 PM

It scares me to think people still want to go faster (not saying you want to Brad), I think for the good of the sport and the safety of everyone, if anything we should be restricting cars back, or accidents are only going to get bigger with more speed. From what I can see from channel one's fotage the tracks are less challenging, cars seem to be able to go 20-30 feet off the two car wide track in most places with out fear, Back in my day when the 4 cylinder Nissan turbo ruled the off road, you had to have skill to drive on a single lane goat track, and if you went off by 5 foot you generally didn't get back on with all of your wheels. people had less suspension and loved the challenge of finishing, and everyone was restricted by their gearbox.
Now thanks to super tough gearbox's we are all racing to win in cars with fantastic suspension, and all we can do is complain about how rough or tight the tracks are or how down on power we are.

The sport has changed there will always be people with big dollars and there will always be people able to use the rule to get an advantage.


I still love the sport, but I am worried that in the chase for that sheep station we are going to have a major accident.

I don't think increasing the power is the way, restrict it, tighten the tracks and show me some driving talent. ( I don't know any other motor sport where a driving line can vary 100m on the one corner.)

The problem is not that a NA engine can't compete, the problem is that the type of engine most people choose is outdated. The pushrod V8 I guess would have to be 60 odd years old. You can get real HP out of a NA engine in fact the current F1 engines get 300hp per litre. If you restrict the tubo engines & make V8's more competitive someone will eventualy use a 3.0 litre NA engine that produces 750 odd Hp. Don't say it can't happen, there are some of us old enough to remember when all class two cars had Datsun engines & Richard Bennett put a cosworth engine in his, that car was placing top three outright. Trying to even things up with engines is a fuitless process, someone will always be one step ahead. 

What is wrong with the current rule??  No matter what rule you have, there will always be poeple who are able to afford to build a better engine then some other people.  If you go to 7 litre engines, won't people be able to run bigger twin turbo engines then they are currently able to (ie 4 litre engine with twin turbos)?  And even some of those people who install a 7 litre "crate" motor might try to push the engine harder and get some more power out of them.  Where does it stop??  Off road has never been a parity formula of motor racing, save for the basic capacity limit and turbo muliplication factor.  If people want parity, are you going to go all of the way and limit suspension, drivetrain components, minimum weights, brake calipers , etc, etc?  Everyone has the choice of what size and type of engine they run to suit their class.  Just because some may not be able to afford to run the most powerful engine, or choose not to spend that amount of money to do so, it shouldn't mean that those who have already done that should be penalised by either restricting their current engines or changing the rules to allow others to run larger engines.