im going to very interest in the reply to that email

What I dont understand is that V8 supercars, drag cars, and speedway cars etc. can run with what appears to be no mufflers at all........and in built-up areas.....and with lots of spectators!!!!

Why do we need to be quiet, when we are usually in the middle of nowhere, with hardly any spectators.

I too have had 2 warnings about noise, 1 written in log book, and this was after 2 modifications (different mufflers).

Still unsure where I stand, guess I'll find out if I go to Finke again?

I know of several events in NSW whose future depends on the amount of noise generated by the cars. It is part of the development consent from the relevent Local Government bodies. If we do not police noise at our events the authorities will either cancel the consent or make us get a profesional noise study done again, costing the promoters several thousand dollars for each event.
If unlimited noise was allowed, we would close two events and I know of several others that would do the same.
Our policy is, if a car tests above the limit in the prologue, they will be told to do something about it, if they can't, well put it on the trailer.
The future of events is more important than some person who has an obviously noisy car.
Usually these high reading stand out from the other cars tested.
To be honest, we don't care what they do out there in the desert, but not at our tracks.
If we don't show some responsibility in self regulation, then another authority will do it for us, usually with large fines attached.

Our club has it's own noise meter, or in most towns the police / RTA use a mechanical workshop that does the testing for them for loud registered cars.
Peter Avery of Singleton does the testing for the Police in HVORRA area.
Also most Councils have meters.
They only have to be a simple device as it is an inexact science with a lot of variables, but they are a good guide and do clearly read decibells.
You can compare your car with other cars etc.
Dick Smith and the like sell them and they are not very dear.
I believe CAMS have some of their own, but I have asked for them to be at our events with no replies.
When I was involved with motorcycle racing, ages ago, each bike was tested at scrutineering before going on to the track, so motorcyling clubs may have access to them.
Some people still think that noise equates to power!!

I didn't mean to be misleading, I am aware that we need to keep all facets happy (ie landholders, councils etc). I am more than happy to muffle my buggy........ but I think my car is already very quiet compared to most, and I still got warnings at nationals.
One tester told me it was because my tailpipes pointed downward, if they went straight out I would have been ok???? I was also tested at several races, but only failed at finke, using the exact same exhaust at all events???
As Maurie said, it is an 'inexact science', so how can we have an 'exact policy' of disqualification by CAMS?
I think the letter by OBR is in reference to the variables of testing accurately, not so much the limit, which I think most of us a happy with!

jones off road wrote:

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I didn't mean to be misleading, I am aware that we need to keep all facets happy (ie landholders, councils etc). I am more than happy to muffle my buggy........ but I think my car is already very quiet compared to most, and I still got warnings at nationals.
One tester told me it was because my tailpipes pointed downward, if they went straight out I would have been ok???? I was also tested at several races, but only failed at finke, using the exact same exhaust at all events???
As Maurie said, it is an 'inexact science', so how can we have an 'exact policy' of disqualification by CAMS?
I think the letter by OBR is in reference to the variables of testing accurately, not so much the limit, which I think most of us a happy with!

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The difference in readins is a bit of a problem, because without knowing the science behind it, I would think that the surrounds you are in would have some effect, as could the weather??

I guess though if you are over the limit on three occasions at three different races then maybe there is a problem?

 

I thought there was a thread somewhere here on noise issues with off road cars but i cant seem to find it.

This is AORRCOM's response to the recent noise queries voiced by some competitors.
Just some light reading shedding some light on the reasons for this limit.


Thank you for your letter. It is timely and hopefully the following will explain the reasons for the Australian Off Road Commissions approach to this complex issue.

 

Why have a noise limit?

 

Legally Off Road and other motor sport events are subject to normal community noise limits and while there have been some specific Acts of Parliament put in place for some specific high profile, government involved events, there is no generally applicable Act regarding noise for motor sport.

 

In an effort to assist events in meeting their requirements and to be seen as taking a responsible approach to the issue, the sport self regulates by adopting a noise limit.

 

Examples are often quoted such as the Grand Prix (F1 or motorbike) as to the reasons why Off Road should not be required to meet any noise restrictions. This unfortunately is not relevant as both events are subject to the Australian Grands Prix Acts (see here:  http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/agpa1994247/ ) which provide exemptions from the laws on noise. These do not apply to other events and there is little prospect of obtaining a specific Act to exempt Off Road or motor sport more widely from the more general laws governing noise.

 

Perhaps one of the most important reasons for having a noise limit is that it gives the sport the best argument to defend itself, its organisers and its venues from people who are anti-motor sport and do not want our sport to take place near them, or possibly at all. Motor sport is not immune from the environmental movement and increasingly efforts will need to be made to demonstrate the environmental credentials of the sport. Noise is certainly a complaint in many areas where motor sport is run, including Off Road. This is perhaps from a minority of people, but they are often (pardon the pun) a noisy and well organised/politically connected group which can have a massive effect on local shire/council decisions, including those relating to off road venues.

 

The 95dB(A) drive by limit used by the majority of disciplines of the sport was adopted following increases in noise related issues from circuits many years ago. In conjunction with the EPA, the 95dB(A) limit was arrived at as it adequately addressed the overall noise emission from the venue. An event itself is measured differently to the cars in straightforward terms it is a level of noise emission over the time of the event or an average noise level. The sports focus on an individual car is because it is not possible for the event to tell the whole field to reduce its noise output.

   

There are OH&S and, more generally, duty of care issues for officials, spectators and others exposed to noise- protective equipment is one aspect of managing this (when worn), but limiting the emitted noise itself is also an effective and necessary treatment of that risk. For those who have stood next to a start line at an AORC event, you will agree the levels of noise are excessive. If you think that is something that can be controlled by ear protection for the officials, what about starting up a car in the scrutiny shed at the Finke where there are so many people around?  

 

The following table illustrates the rapid decrease in time of exposure at which hearing damage occurs when noise levels increase over 85dB.

 

Decibel Exposure Time Guidelines Accepted standards for recommended permissible exposure time for continuous time weighted average noise, according to NIOSH and CDC, 2002. For every 3 dBs over 85dB, the permissible exposure time before possible damage can occur is cut in half. Continuous dB Permissible Exposure Time 85 db 8 hours 88 dB 4 hours 91 db 2 hours 94 db 1 hour 97 db 30 minutes 100 db 15 minutes 103 db 7.5 minutes 106 dB 3.75 min (< 4min) 109 dB 1.875 min (< 2min) 112 dB .9375 min (~1 min) 115 dB .46875 min (~30 sec)

Source:

http://www.dangerousdecibels.org/hearingloss.cfm

 

Many off road cars have been measured over 100dB(A) over the past couple of years during this research phase. The potential for hearing damage is clear.

 

Much has been written on this topic and we would recommend that you research this on-line as hearing protection whilst competing and for your crew is certainly worth considering.

 

Ultimately the relevant government/council/shire department or appropriate body (such as the EPA) may enforce those limits, for which organisers will be held accountable. In the longer term if noise limits are not complied with, penalties such as fines may apply or, perhaps worse for competitors, future approvals for the events may be jeopardised. This may further marginalise the sport and we are of the view that few people would want off road to have to run in more and more remote locations.

 

The likelihood of this being enforced varies on the location generally the closer to a population the greater the issue, but not always. Some organisers therefore will be affected little but others will be greatly. AORCom is mindful also of the workloads of particularly volunteer organisers and officials, and protracted negotiations which may be required on this topic with Councils. Time spent on these sorts of issues on top of the significant time spent putting the events on in the first place can affect their desire to be involved.    

 

One aspect that competitors may not have considered is that if a limit is not imposed by the sport itself and the organisers are left to negotiate with their respective shires and so on to reach the best situation for their event or venue, we will have a situation where noise limits will potentially vary greatly between events. In a technical sense this would mean a variety of different specifications of exhausts &/or inlet systems which will be far more difficult to get right for competitors.

 

The Commission could perhaps have taken a short term view on noise, but ultimately someone else will impose a requirement on Off Road which may be far less palatable than the quite reasonable steps AORCom has taken to assist competitors to comply. For all of these reasons, for the sport not to have a reasonable policy on noise limitation would simply be irresponsible and publicly indefensible.

The regulation

 

However, the Australian Off Road Commission has taken on board much of the comment that has occurred on the topic (including a further amendment prior to Christmas) and has introduced a regulation that it believes is fair to all concerned and still demonstrates a commitment to responsibly reducing noise for the detractors of the sport and address the safety issues.

The following regulations will be introduced in the 2010 CAMS Manual of Motor Sport:

 

4.5 Noise:

(i) Cars may be required to be subjected to a noise emission test prior to starting in any event or at any time during the competition. The maximum noise emission permitted from any vehicle is 95dB(A).

(ii) All noise testing is to be carried out with a noise meter approved by AORCom. The test position must be not less than 30 meters from the edge of the defined track when measured at an angle of 90° to the line of the track.

(iii) A tolerance of +3% to the maximum noise limit of 95dB(A) to account for variations in measurements and conditions. Note: Individual events may impose more stringent limits in order to comply with local requirements.

(iv) Implementation:

If the car measures under the 95dB(A) no action required;

If the car measures over 95dB(A) the car is to be fitted with a compliant silencer (refer GR23) from the next event;

If the car is fitted with a compliant silencer and is still over the noise limit the car shall be made to comply with the noise limit within two events from the time it is originally measured over the limit, or  from any event thereafter it shall be removed from the competition surface and not permitted to resume practice, prologue or competition until the organisers are satisfied that the problem has been rectified.  

 

GR 23 EXHAUST

Exhaust outlets must be pointed rearwards or sideways. Orifices shall not be less than 100mm above the ground and may not project more than 150mm beyond the rearmost portion of the car. The exhaust orifice must be located aft of a vertical plane passing through the midpoint of the wheelbase. The orifice may not project beyond the maximum width of the bodywork, nor terminate more than 50mm within the projected plan of the bodywork. Exhaust gas shall only exit at the end of the system. Adequate protection shall be provided to prevent heated exhaust pipes from causing burns.

Where required, a silencer shall comply with the following definition: A silencer is a section of the exhaust system that serves to reduce the exhaust noise level of the vehicle. The cross-section of the silencer must be at least 170% of that of the inlet pipe and contain sound-deadening material. The sound-deadening material may take the form of a 45% perforated tube or synthetic packing. The length of the silencer must be between three and eight times the inlet diameter. The silencer may be supplied as a series part welded to a pipe, but the pipe is not considered as part of the silencer.

 

Other than the Grand Prix example, these are the most generous noise prescriptions in place in Australian four wheeled motor sport and they have been adopted by the Commission in full consideration of the generally more remote location of off road.

 

The +3% variance is allowed to ensure different conditions (geographic or environmental) were not detrimental to competitors. This also has the effect of addressing the comments at the Alice Springs meeting where a number of competitors in attendance indicated they would be comfortable with a noise limit in the range of  98dB(A).

 

As some cars are currently not fitted with a silencer and it is somewhat debateable as to what would constitute one, a definition has been adopted. You will note that you do not have to comply with this unless you have exceeded the noise limit in the first place if the car passes now then that is fine, nothing needs to be done. However, simply having a compliant silencer fitted does not guarantee compliance (the exhaust may not be the sole source of the noise issue, and/or the silencer designed [whilst complying with the definition] may not be adequate for the particular application), so compliance with the noise limit will continue to be required.

 

In the last part of 2009, AORCom adjusted the action to be taken should there be a noise problem at an event. Essentially this means the competitor may rectify the issue at an event should it come to light, rather than it result directly in exclusion from the event which is an understandable concern. At a circuit race you would not have been through the other two steps of being allowed to compete while having exceeded the noise limit this staged process has been introduced due to often remote locations of Off Road where access to the necessary parts or resources to resolve a noise problem may not be available.

 

The reason that a provision has been included for individual events to set lower limits would be simply to enable them to comply with limits that have been imposed on them by other authorities, not that AORCom has a view they should be lower.   

 

Measurement

 

The drive by test will continue to be utilised. This is consistent with the methodology used in circuit racing, sprints and other motor sport events.

 

Experiments with static tests in the past  have proved it would be inappropriate for off road. It was appreciated by AORCom that this would be the easiest to replicate away from a competition, however drastic changes would need to be made either to the cars to make them quieter or to increase the generally accepted decibel limits in such tests. Neither was seen to be practical and nor would it assist in the justification of a responsible approach to noise.

 

We are satisfied that our present methods are accurately measuring the noise emitted by the vehicle at the time of the test. The meter used at AORC events is calibrated every 2 years in accordance with AS1259.1 and AS 1259.2 - 1990 by a test laboratory which fulfils both the manufacturers and Australian Standards requirements.

 

The test location is determined by a number of factors, primarily the following:

- 30 metres from the track edge

- the vehicle will be under acceleration

- safe for the tester (away from likely run off of out of control competition vehicles)

- usually upwind so that dust is not directed at the tester (which is favourable for the competitor/noise measurement)

 

The 3% tolerance has been introduced to take account of environmental factors.

 

What can competitors do?

 

You should obviously look at the two most significant emitters of noise on the vehicle those being the exhaust and inlet systems. These systems should be designed so there is some margin between the maximum allowed and the noise emission of your vehicle.  

 

The new regulation requires all exhaust gases to exit at the end of the exhaust system so it is important (where relevant) that turbo waste gate gases be redirected to the exhaust and to assist with lowering noise emission should be run through the muffler/silencer.  

 

An informative article has been produced in the November January issue of Race magazine regarding this issue, and we would recommend that you have a look at this and other published articles on this topic. Exhaust shops with motor racing experience should also be able to provide some helpful advice as this is not a new issue to them.

Regards

Ben Erceg

AORCom Chairman

 

 

 

 

 

the lack of debate is probably that it is not an issue for 99.9% of competitors and the only ones complaining are the ones that do not comply

As my group email stated:

Good Afternoon Ben,
                         Thanks for taking the time out over the break to respond to our letters but I find I'm offended by a lot of the content as it is incorrect, mischievous, folly and scare mongering. I think the authors of this document should have taken the time to consider the information and points provided to them and re-read what they returned to us.

This misguided ruling with a very hollow basis will cost many competitors quite a deal of time and money once implemented and is based on "what ifs" and disinformation.

Offroad events generally DON'T generate excessive event noise and IF they did would require nothing other than a permit from the local shire to fulfill their legal and EPA obligations.

There are not hoards of critics waiting to shut down OFF ROAD events. If so why haven't we had complaints regarding noise for the past 10 years when so many cars are above the limit? They can't hear us where we play and most of it's on private property.

The legal stance is to abide by by Shire ruling when required (Other motor sport circuits arent OFFROAD's issue)

Spectators and Officials WILL NOT go deaf at the Finke Desert Race scrutineering ABSOLUTE FOLLY....read your own table....(maybe the band might be deemed as deafening)....also on start finish duty you would be pushing to stand in 95DB noise continuous at anytime....the rising noise moves away and again is not continuous.

Many Off road cars HAVEN'T been measured over 100Db. I believe at Gundi not 1 vehicle went over... is that the case?? 

We asked for mature,solid reasons why this ruling needed to be applied for OFF ROAD RACING in particular long course.Not for any other disapline as they all seem to have their own method of application and testing.

We asked for a testing method that was sound and reliable that could be implimented prior to hauling your race car to the other side of Australia (that is in the  workshop.)

The current testing method is NOT reliable as shown by the varying results and with the same cars with no changes to the exhaust system or radical changes to the exhaust system and still no change on the test. Step one should be to publish the tests and seek input from the vehicle owners to their thoughts and actions. I understand some members of the commission aren't confident with the current testing methods or results also.

How much did the commissioners take on from Competitors comments???? Not a great deal as the ultimate cost will be borne by the competitor....and to what gain??? Did the commissioners read and digest the information made available to them?? Do they all understand what we are on about???? Did they have much input into this ruling?? 

So once again may we have some INFORMED comment on this issue not "ITS HAPPENING BECAUSE WE SAY SO"

This is our money we have to spend as usual...this time I want to make sure its worthwhile.

Regards

Ian French
           French Bros Racing   

If the Event organizer is having an Event in an area that is so remote the noise levels will not impede on anybody?????, I would then assume that they ( the Event organizers, club or private) would be in a position to go to their local Council and/or Government Dept for a dispensation for a change in decibel reading for their event.
In New South Wales we have a Government Dept called Sport & Recreation who tell us what we have to abide by as far as regulations for noise,age etc. and the chances of being able to convince these guys to even think about changing is a long shot. But as you say,it is worth a try,how many politicians, Councilors & the like can you convince.
This is only my observation,but I know that Sydney Off Road Racing as a Club is happier to comply with these noise restraints than try & fight them. And our Club track is 20klms from a Town & 4.5Klms from our neighbour. And these day's it is not hard to take the bark out of the system.We have family groups that come to our events ,plus the people that man checkpoints,the canteen, recovery,and the officials and as a club we want to make their stay at our events more pleasurable to ensure that we are able to keep our events happening.
Heck! Some of these people have family members racing.
As an aside to this, our Club and most others now ,under OH&S, have to supply ear plugs & Sunsreen lotion to our Officials at or near the starting line and pits, So I would assume that besides being in a very,very remote area, your starting area & pits are not manned?
Oh! That's being facetious? Sorry??
OH! yeah, I would like to get an equitable way to measure the noise.



-- Edited by heyu on Friday 15th of January 2010 03:55:14 PM

king kong wrote:

---

 

obr184 wrote:

---

 

KUSTERRACECO wrote:

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the lack of debate is probably that it is not an issue for 99.9% of competitors and the only ones complaining are the ones that do not comply

---

Sorry Nev, I incorrectly assumed you were concerned about the future of our sport and promoting the longevity of the grassroots clubs that started it all. If the AORCom noise ruling is implemented, to ensure compliance, all event organisers will be forced to employ noise testing at ALL events (if this is not the case, then why implement a rule simply forced on the national competitors?). This will have an impact on all of us, from the guys and girls building their first off-roader in Dads shed, through to event organisers, sponsors and the championship competitors. Obviously at your age, simply burying your head in the sand and ignoring the long term consequences of these excessively harsh measures to regulate the progression of our sport is far easier for you than standing up for your rights. Now that you have all those Australian Off Road Championship trophies in your pool room cabinet, and as you enjoy your twilight years of competition, it probably doesnt concern you too much that for the future "legends" of our sport, these noise regulations could have a significant impact.

You, with your much publicised penchant for assigning blame to event staff for your shortcomings, should be more careful about jabbing away at the people who are trying to ensure an equitable system for all competitors.

-- Edited by obr184 on Friday 15th of January 2010 11:18:37 AM

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Beau!!!! Nevs comment is fair enough, he simply stated that if your car has not been over the noise limit why would this thread concern you. So obviously 99.9% of the people on this forum have cars that have not  been affected by the noise limit.

However i think every body agrees that we need a consistent form of testing race vehicles for noise. 

Maybe we could start a poll of vehicles which have been pinged for noise and vehicles that havent and aslo engine type. So then the people who have been done for noise can then have a starting point with their exhaust system and compare systems with the others. 

This is a good thread where we maybe able to help each other out instead of sinking  into  personal attacks.  

 

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Yeah im sure no mallace was intended by Nev


 

 Good backpedal.

-- Edited by 020 OFFROAD on Monday 18th of January 2010 04:01:39 PM

-- Edited by 020 OFFROAD on Monday 18th of January 2010 04:06:33 PM

FYI guys, no personal attacks. Youre getting borderline.

To get back on topic, true its not an issue for 99% of us as we just dont have the HP to generate that high DBs, but it still needs addressing as more and more competitors get more and more HP.

I would think that even the people that have "quiet" cars would have an nterest in this as it effects us all in terms of ability to get access to tracks, comfort levels for spectators, how we are viewed by the public etc

I would be happy to quieten my car down, but wouldnt want to build a new exhaaust syetm more than once, so I guess I would have to go failry conservative first time around.

dessert-people wrote:

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so the problem is not db limit its way its tested at the track, maybe we could have the systems test and sealed by a cams approved person, then there is no differnce where you race .

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 While not racing (at the moment) it is a sport i wish to get into when money allows.

i agree with the above, it is not the db limit that is the problem, it is an inacurate and non-repeatable test. 

luke