FUEL INSPECTION TAPS

jones off road · Rehab Dropout...

RE: FUEL INSPECTION TAPS

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

KMD - nice find that. CAMS be lawyered! Woot!

1) Unless I'm reading it wrong, the CAMS manual says its up to the scruitneer to decide if using a jiggler to extract fuel is legal or not.
2) the WA scruitneers decided that using a jiggler (or similar) could contaminate samples so a fuel tap is essential, therefore the log book write ups.
3) Minutes from the AORCom meeting in November (with no later update) say that it is the competitors responsibility to extract the fuel in any way they see fit, not up to the scruitneer and that a fuel tap is not essential.

It sounds like either CAMS/AORCom didnt correctly notify the scruiteers of the new rule.

As for making a fuel tap essential in a pressure line... stupid. Can I sue if the tap gets hit by a clod of mud and gets turned on, dumps fuel into the cab, the car burns to the ground and the crew gets hurt? Umm... no.

We'll do it of course, because thats the rule, but surely CAMS can notify the competitors first...

LIAbillity · Rehab Dropout...

i was told by the event scruitneer that it does not have to be in the pressure line ,
and the tap end can be bunged / covered to stop fuel leaking if the tap was to every become open

william · Rehab Dropout...

guys the simple fact is this rule is a waste of time the fuel you run will not add that much extra power compared to what you can do with some engine mods and a turbo. take for instanc the trusty A series mini 1200cc engine standard makes about 60bhp not very impressive but fit a twin cam bmw bike head and a turbo charger and that figure can go to over 300bhp with the cost of doing this less then $10,000. so think of a team that take a 3,5lt v6 engine and puts say $100,000 into it the power will be huge and yes if they run avgas they will get a bit more power but why would they on 98 they would still get about 90% of the engines potental power and it will be reliable.

total waste of time and money just another rule to protect the $10 plastic prize and another reason that offroad racing in australia wont go forward.

Webmaster · Rehab Dropout...

he was totally INCORRECT to tell you you needed a tap.
It makes it so damn hard for the competitors to comply to rules when the ones enforcing them have no idea what they are on about. Makes for a whole lot of angry and confused people, both competitors and scruitineers.

Please CAMS the next national event is just around the corner, what will these scruitineers deem an acceptable method of retrieving a fuel sample???

Powerhouse Poster

The rule does not require a "Fuel Tap" there is a lot of miscommunicaton out there at present. Please see GR Schedule G Fuel, Point 9 Fuel testing.

If you are competing at an AORC Round (see AORC Sporting Regs) you are required to provide a "safe method of fuel sampling fitted after the main tank"

Yes, a number of competiters ( us included) were logged for not compling with this requirement at Hyden; and we do all need to be on the same page going forward!

If you have anything to rasie on this matter please contact myself or any other commissioner directly ASAP, we have a teleconference next week and this matter is on the agenda. I will not use any information I have read on the forum, regardless of whether I agree or not. .

My email address is wsbuild@bigpond.net.au. Email me directly, and I will take your personal concerns and constructive suggestions to the commission.

Regards

Sue Zettl
AORC Commissioner.

-- Edited by 232 on Sunday 1st of May 2011 09:05:48 PM

TOYOTAPOWR · In rehab

william wrote:
guys the simple fact is this rule is a waste of time the fuel you run will not add that much extra power compared to what you can do with some engine mods and a turbo. take for instanc the trusty A series mini 1200cc engine standard makes about 60bhp not very impressive but fit a twin cam bmw bike head and a turbo charger and that figure can go to over 300bhp with the cost of doing this less then $10,000. so think of a team that take a 3,5lt v6 engine and puts say $100,000 into it the power will be huge and yes if they run avgas they will get a bit more power but why would they on 98 they would still get about 90% of the engines potental power and it will be reliable.

total waste of time and money just another rule to protect the $10 plastic prize and another reason that offroad racing in australia wont go forward.

No one has been able to tell me what they are looking for in the fuel tests.

You don't need a fuel test to detect Avgas as the inside of the exhaust pipe will be grey and not black and you can smell the difference in the emmissions.

I could undestand the test if a maximum of 98ULP was all that was permitted but with Sunoco and Elf etc being permitted what is actually not permit

scrutineer · Regular Poster

Why doesn't everyone calm down and wait for Sue Zettyl to come back to us. I agree both competitors and scrutineers need to know what methods are to be considered safe. There are other methods besides fitting something to a fuel hose. There are methods used in Circuit but as these have not been tested in Off Road I believe that AORCom need to look thoroughly at them before recommending them. Meeting is soon and hopefully various Off Road State Panels and Scrutineers Panels will get the infomormation to forward to clubs, competitors and scrutineers.

simpson · Rehab Dropout...

I THINK YOUR MISSING THE POINT WHY DOES ORCOM /CAMS ? PUT THESE RULES ON US WITH NO NOTICE AND NO THOUGHT. AS I HAVE SAID BEFORE THEY KEEP PUTTING THE CART BEFORE THE HORSE

WE JUST WANT SOMEBODY TO PUT SOME RESEARCH INTO WHAT THEY WANT. INSTEAD OF JUST SHOVING CRAP DOWN OUR THROATS
IAM SICK OF IT AS OTHERS ARE

THIS ONES A PRIME EXAMPLE OF NO PLAN AT ALL JUST THROW A RULE OUT THERE AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS

AND YOU CAN'T SAY SEE WHAT SUE COMES UP WITH. THEY HAVE NOTED IT IN OUR LOGBOOKS THAT OUR CARS DON'T COMPLY.
SO UNLESS WE PUT SOME TYPE OF SYSTEM IN PLACE WE DON'T RACE. SOME OF US HAVE ABOUT 30 DAYS TO WORK IT OUT
I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU BUT I HAVE BETTER THINGS TO WORRY ABOUT

OUR SPORT IS IN GOOD HANDS DON'T YOU THINK ?

dessert-people · Rehab Dropout...

scrutineer wrote:
Why doesn't everyone calm down and wait for Sue Zettyl to come back to us. I agree both competitors and scrutineers need to know what methods are to be considered safe. There are other methods besides fitting something to a fuel hose. There are methods used in Circuit but as these have not been tested in Off Road I believe that AORCom need to look thoroughly at them before recommending them. Meeting is soon and hopefully various Off Road State Panels and Scrutineers Panels will get the infomormation to forward to clubs, competitors and scrutineers.

shouldn,t all the methods for testing the fuel in offroad, be checked frist before the new rule was put into place. its a bit of a worry when cams/ aorcom make up rules that dont work and have no checks done to see if they are valid at all . furious

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

This "rule" is the greatest joke they have come up with. The first question must be what is legal fuel. From what I can find out, if you mix say optimax & BP ultimate, what you have is an illegal fuel because what is in your tank (the specific mix) isn't a commercially available fuel. The next question has to be "is illegal fuel (as defined in the rules) a problem" Our rules are been dictated by people that are racing for sheep stations. So many rules only have relevence to those at the top of the sport. None of this bothers me any more as I no longer race, I have a fully prepped car sitting in the shed but it has now been labeled "unsafe" because the floorpan is rivited to the frame. It has been that way since the car was built in 81. It has been to state & national events in the last five years but no one ever said anything. Good luck with your sport, I'm done.

jones off road · Rehab Dropout...

This 'rule' is the greatest joke they have come up with................SO-FAR !!!!!!

There will be more!
Sorry you have been added to the ever increasing list of people leaving our sport, when its so simple to keep racers like yourself if all these stupid rules stop keep getting thrown at us.

feral off road · Forum Junkie

DONT let them beat you like that stingray i hade the same problem and ended up rebiulding my buggy all u need to do is fix you're floor do it dude

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

I don't want to make this a "why I don't race anymore" thread so we will get back to fuel testing & why it is done. It's like Jones said though "So far", there will be more of this stpidity. Several years ago I emailed Campell Andre at CAMS asking him where I could find a list of what was "legal" fuel. He said he couldn't & said that he didn't know if there was one. I would hope that has changed but it would be interesting for someone to find out if there is one now. If there is not, what the hell are they testing for.

If they are wanting to do fuel testing why not simply say it is the responsability of the competitor to be able to provide a fuel sample if required. An official will supervise the process & you have a time period to get them the sample. It aint rocket science. Allow the car to cool, & simply disconnect a fuel line.

Are we really so bloody stupid that anyone believes that by using illegal fuel that you can win a race compared to if you don't. The benifits of an illegal fuel over a race distance could not be measured, it is the most stupid thing that our powers that be have ever been concerned about.

Webmaster · Rehab Dropout...

so Finke is less than 2 weeks and no-one has informed us of what is deemed an acceptable and approved method of retrieving a fuel sample.

Will be interesting to see what happens.

simpson · Rehab Dropout...

Could be interesting i have installed what i think is the best of a bad bunch but it still has the potential to fail. And i don't have a helicopter to tell me my car is on fire.
I would love to see the officials tell the Robinsons or the Kittle teams if there not fitted you don't race. sorry if i sound cynical.

Webmaster · Rehab Dropout...

whats worse Garry, it is then up to the scruitineer to decide if your method is acceptable, still no-one has given us a list of safe and acceptable methods that will pass at scruitineering.
Letting each scruitineer decide what they see fit is not right as they will all have different opinions.

Lets see who is not allowed to race due to this rule!!

DMC32 · Newbie

All fellow off roaders,

See Car #32 at Milbrodale for a dry break set up for less than $100.

Pressure rating 400 bar includes protective cap which is a secondary protection from leakage.

Uses specialised hose but only one required per club not one by every competitor.

Pressure gauge can also be connected.

Dale

ph 0408 541178

scooter · Forum Addict

Why not use a caterpillar oil sampling tap ( dry break ) they cost next to nothing (less then $20) and they throw the dust cap in for free ,will handle around 500 psi and the collection bottle cost around $20. plenty of thread sizes to choose from and they are really tough. smile

-- Edited by scooter on Saturday 16th of July 2011 06:29:26 AM

TOYOTAPOWR · In rehab

Anyone have an update regarding fuel sampling?

Locals scrutineered early for Finke and we were told we wouldn't get written up but when we got our log books back we had been .

I have since heard that you have 3 National rounds to comply but there was also legal action pending.

-- Edited by TOYOTAPOWR on Thursday 28th of July 2011 05:52:12 PM

-- Edited by TOYOTAPOWR on Thursday 28th of July 2011 08:08:09 PM

simpson · Rehab Dropout...

They checked to see if we had a method of getting the fuel out at Baroota so they are still looking

spaz · In rehab

Have sent you a private message but no reply yet Garry. Can you email or text me your ph number please? Thanks. micklefab@hotmail.com

simpson · Rehab Dropout...

Sorry Gav i don't check my pm's 0408273002