Anynews on 2012 Dates???

Normally we have a calender by now.

I am looking foward to 2012, but fast running out of time to organise time off work etc.???

As for 2012, we are all sick of waiting for answers,

We have a great plan for 2012, who ever is serious about becoming a champion in a series that is run by racers for races, with prize money and low travel distances.

email me, travisrobinson13@hotmail.com

cheers

Travis Robinson

becoming a champion in a series but it's not a championship. I do not like that are waiting for answers but by next week also we should know what is going on. I also think look at the point score.

States will usually wait until the National calendar is confirmed before releasing there's.

I think there is a meeting on the 10 th of Dec which will decide on the future of national events for 2012. OR NOT ?

Taken from AORC Newsletter

Challenges of the 2012 Calendar

Its nearly 2012 and the

Calendar is still not

finalisedbviously

frustrating and annoying for

all members. We all aspire

for growth in our sport and

this often requires change..

This year, as mentioned in

the previous newsletter, the

decision was made to

change the way in which the

AORC calendar was

developed. The process, in

summary, was: Event

Organisers were contacted

to express an interest in

organising an event for 2012

and beyond. To complete

an expression of interest

(EOI), an Organiser needed

to enter into an agreement

with ORRInc, AORCom

would then assess the

expressions of interest and

 

 

 

 

produce a Calendar. Sounds

straight forward. It was

started in June, a number of

months earlier than previous

years. However

unfortunately, recent events

have delayed the Calendar

announcement.

The agreement is essentially

about protecting and

growing the commercial

aspects of the sport and

organisers can negotiate up

to 3 year terms. This way

Event Organisers can have

the ability to negotiate with

sponsors, local councils and

the like. The pre and post

event promotion that occurs

with each event, which is

sent across the country and

to other parts of the world,

was included in this

agreement. Also included

was a requirement to enable

merchandise sales as well as

the protection and

broadcasting of video

footage. There still remains

some outstanding issues

between some of the Event

Organisers, AORCom and

ORRinc.

Recently CAMS

Administration has joined

the negotiations in an

attempt to mediate a timely

outcome.

We are confident that the

issues between all parties

will be resolved and the

2012 AORC Calendar will be

announced in the very near

future.

 

 

 

-- Edited by TOYOTAPOWR on Wednesday 7th of December 2011 08:53:01 PM

jones off road wrote:

---

Anyway, I already know I will probably race the nsw state next year....who would have thought state level was what we aspire to?
This might get the forum going...lol!

---

 Used plenty of bait Jonesy !! Must be plenty biting their tongues.

 Anyway, you can't go past NSW state for good close tight racing and a great bunch of people.

http://www.offroadracing.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1153:2012-aorc-calendar-announced&catid=18:aorc-news&Itemid=329

Gee whats going on with the national rounds next year not good at all

This is taken from the OFFROAD OZ website
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fellow Off Roaders,

The undersigned organisers would like to take this opportunity to explain our position in relation to the recently announced 2012 AORC Calendar

In mid-2011 Event Organisers were approached to submit an Expression of Interest in holding a round of the 2012 Australian Off Road Championship. All 2011 Event Organisers submitted the required documents with the understanding that they would enter into negotiations in good faith with ORRinc. In addition, Brisbane Sporting Car Club also submitted an EOI document.

ORRinc was formed a number of years ago as an answer to a call from teams and organisers to have an effective management team behind the commercial and promotional aspects of the Championship. A number of high profile teams pledged $100,000 in funds to kick start the process. As management plans failed to materialise, sponsorship was not secured and television deals had not been forthcoming, these pledges dried up. CAMS then provided $50,000 as seed money and appointed Mr. Laurie Svenson (Off Road Portfolio holder on the Board) to the ORRinc board to assist in the management.

ORRinc produced a contract for all Event Organisers. It should be noted that no event accepted or signed this contract. The contract that was presented had clear cut responsibilities and obligations for Event Organisers, including the wavering of commercial control, but had little in the way of obligation or key performance indicators from ORRinc. Over a number of years, Event Organisers fed back information and requested changes to ORRinc only to be presented with the same contract year after year.

Events and teams are still waiting for the securing of a Series Sponsor. They are still waiting for a series television package. Events have had to take responsibility for their own promotion and TV exposure. Events have had their commercial viability threatened and event sponsorship jeopardised over the lack of effective management from ORRinc.

Finke Desert Race, Hyden and Pines have all written to Mrs. Marilyn Emmins (Chairperson of AORCom) and AORCom to express their dissatisfaction and frustration with ORRInc and their management team. None of the concerns were acknowledged, let alone addressed.

ORRinc presented essentially the same contract to Event Organisers for 2012. All previous organisers declined to sign this contract. BSSC, however, signed and nominated their preferred dated as being the one traditionally held by Goondiwindi. Goondiwindi then decided to sign said contract and nominated a date that conflicted with Baroota. After negotiations, Millicent also decided to sign said contract.

Hyden, Finke Desert Race and Baroota had still declined to sign this contract. While these Event Organisers were in negotiation with ORRinc representatives who were genuinely trying to resolve issues, AORCom released the 2012 Calendar, effectively ending all negotiations. We are now faced with an Australian Championship that starts in August and has two events in Queensland and one in South Australia.

Hyden, Finke Desert Race and Baroota are strongly committed to the sport of Off Road Racing. Their committees have worked tirelessly to improving their events and looking after the financial viability of their clubs. It should be noted that an Australian Championship Round can cost upward of two hundred thousand dollars.

In order for these events, and the Australian Championship to not only survive but to grow to the level that is desired, these event committees need the support of competitors. It is now time to step up and support these tireless volunteers and Event Organisers in their ambition to improve the series and the sport of Off Road Racing. Hyden, Finke and Baroota are still committed to working together to present professional events that can attract the TV coverage that competitors and sponsors deserve. We do, however, need competitor numbers to achieve this. Show your support for these organisers and volunteers by participating in their 2012 events. If possible, approach your CAMS representatives and petition their support. If you require supporting documentation or further history to support any of the above claims, don't hesitate to contact any of the involved clubs. With event success, comes profile success. This keeps race cars and transporters saleable assets and the sport healthy.

Yours in racing

Hyden 450
Finke Desert Race
Flinders 450
_________________
Daniel Rogers

If you think you can or you think you can't - you are right! (Henry Ford)

www.westerndesertracers.com

More from OFFROAD OZ website



Kim's post above is 2 pages from a 6 page document. I will attempt to post a ink to the entire document but in the meantime the additional content is below



Hyden wrote to the chairperson of AORCom Marilyn Emmins in support of Finkes document and
expressed their lack of confidence in ORRInc. Hydens email was copied to a number of
stakeholders in an attempt to open the communication to more people, bring a level of
understanding regarding the issues and increase the discussion. Unfortunately the responses
that were received focussed on how the point was being made and not the content of the
questions. Having received at least some response in writing, attempts were made to extend
that communication by responding with some direct questions including some specifically to
Laurie Svenson. They received no replies.
Millicent wrote a solid document again stating their lack of confidence in ORRInc and received
no answer.
IN THE MIDDLE OF ALL THIS WAS AN OPPORTUNITY OF A FULLY SPONSORED TV
PACKAGE PROGRAMME FOR SEASON 2012 AND BEYOND. The very thing ORRInc was created
to achieve, but it couldnt happen until the ORRInc Management changed, as the sponsor had no
confidence in the ORRInc chairman.
Daniel Rogers (Deputy Chairman AORCom, Commissioner for WA since 2002, Clerk of the Course
for Hyden, Finke and Goondiwindi in 2011) wrote a to his fellow AORCom commissioners
regarding the 2012 calendar taking into consideration numbers and facts on who attends and
from where and AORC growth areas. Presumably, because he questioned the merit of a sixth
round and the motivation of the BSCC, Daniel received a response from Laurie Svenson (who was
not an addressee on the correspondence) questioning his reasons for initiating a discussion with
his fellow AORCom members.
Ultimately, BSCC signed the ORRInc agreement and secured Gundys traditional date based on
the fact that they were the ONLY event to sign the ORRINC agreement. This annoyed the
other event management teams from the outset while they were still attempting to negotiate
with ORRInc.
Mr Daniel Rogers, wrote to his fellow commissioners expressing his frustration citing he wasnt
comfortable with the calendar process, the outside interference and influence in that process
and the Chairmans lack of consultation with board members and event management. Daniel did
not receive any written support from fellow AORCom members and ultimately tendered his
resignation.
It is important to note that a contract with ORRinc was not a requirement to run an AORC
round as incorrectly written in the two ORRInc newsletters (edition 1 Oct 2011 and edition 2
Dec 2011). The expression of interest document required event organisers to be willing to enter
into negotiations in good faith. It did not require a signed document. AORCom could have
set the calendar as has been done in previous years, without these documents.
At the close of time frames to sign the ORRinc contracts, all five events from 2011 had not
signed, yet AORCom chose to use those contracts as part of the decision making process for
the calendar that was when this whole mess turned South and it just did not make sense
given the ongoing negotiation the events had with ORRInc and the feedback the events were
giving about lack of communication (and 5 organisers had said it needs work)
Until the BSCC (initially for a round at Inglewood) signed, no AORC event has had a signed
contract in any year with ORRINC. They were rejected for 2011 and the document that came
forward for 2012 was, despite assurances from ORRInc that they would work through the
issues that the organisers had, essentially the same document that was presented and rejected
for 2011. The issues still existed and no attempts at good faith negotiation were forthcoming
from ORRInc. Dont be fooled by the line about organisers not wanting to give away commercial
rights ALL OF THOSE ISSUES COULD BE MANAGED IF COMMUNICATION AND
NEGOTIATIONS ARE HANDLED PROPERLY. Finke was one that had the biggest issue and so
they should. The Finke brand has significantly more value than the AORC brand. The issues
needed to be managed and there was no ongoing management in previous years or this year,
culminating with an issue at Finke 2011 that has still not been resolved.
The calendar was partially set when Gundy signed an agreement in late October and had
nominated a conflicting date with Baroota. This left Baroota on a collision course with Hyden to
take their date. It also left a calendar with only two events, both in QLD - 10 weeks apart!
When given what amounted to an ultimatum, four events withdrew their expression of interest.
Finke, Baroota, Pines and Hyden chose to work together to bring it to a head so the issues could
get resolved and not lay over to next year, as they had done so in previous years. In order to
resolve the issues the organisers were willing to risk running their events individually without
the AORC, if they had to.
The CAMS CEO contacted the event organisers after the expressions of interest were
withdrawn. In conversations with the CEO there were pleas from the organisers to give
something to take back to the group that gave an indication of willingness to change. This
included a potential change of management (although it was explained we felt it was their call to
make) at ORRInc, AORCom and portfolio holder level to clear the decks, fix the communication
issues and move forward. We received little concession except to be told that everyone was
committed to a solution and we needed to go to a face to face meeting in Melbourne on the 10
DEC with the AORCom chair, ORRInc chair and portfolio holder(the same people we all had
issues with). At that stage representatives from each of the organiser groups met by
teleconference and decided that we had to spell out exactly what would be required to the
CAMS CEO. This was done, and it included a written request for that management change along
with other quite reasonable requests to come to a resolution. His response gave us little of what
we asked for. Could they not see the need for that change and make that decision themselves?
Or at least give us a strong indication there was a willingness to change by asking us to deal with
different people? Not one past issue was discussed, nor even acknowledged.
In the meantime someone (either internally or externally) has convinced the Pines to split from
our group and agree to run an AORC round. Whilst, we are genuinely happy that they have
achieved a compromise, it has meant that any form of negotiation as a group to solve the issues
that have be affecting us for many years has become almost impossible. We have asked the
Pines to let us know what they were able to achieve in their negotiation and if they were able to
negotiate for the entire group and have not received a reply.
Finke, Baroota and Hyden now stand together wondering what to do next. We were reached out
to by some board members of ORRInc and were attempting to negotiate an outcome. This has
since been railroaded as the 2012 calendar has been announced and those ORRInc board
members have been told no changes will happen. We have pushed this as we felt it needed to
be and do not regret one thing that we have done. We accept that our stance has forced the
issue, but it was essential to change as it was costing the events big dollars and the AORC would
not grow under the existing arrangements. Event budgets range from $180-200K and beyond
organisers put their clubs on the line every year and growth or improvement is essential. We
know of a number of people who had access to big dollar sponsorships that would not be brought
into the events or AORC under the 2011 structure. Sadly the 2012 structure does not address
these issues.
The result is a train wreck, but we always said it had to break before it could be fixed.
Unfortunately the ambulance is not coming. We have three great events and feel that if we do
the best by our events we could well dilute the AORC, and that was never our intention. If that
is our next step then so be it but no one can suggest we have not been acting in the sports best
interest.
As event organisers, we feel that many stakeholders have been led by misinformation to form an
opinion that as events we have derailed this process. This is not about reputation it is about our
sport and our main driving factor was for the events to push for the changes that events,
competitors and contractors have been screaming for. By announcing the reduced haphazard
2012 calendar, the sports management has effectively written off all of our concerns and
opinions that are based on a massive collective experience. We are all volunteers and the
personal sacrifices we have made to run the professional events that we do entitles us to have
an opinion, be listened to and receive responses. We feel that we have been ignored, stabbed in
the back and in some circumstances our efforts and names have been tarnished. This action, (we
will be told) is irreversible and they considered all options before making this decision. No, this
action removes the events that were asking the difficult questions and is the death knell for
the AORC.
The Christmas message from CAMS CEO David Morgan stated Our strategy throughout the
year has been focussed on getting the organisational fundamentals in place, so we are well
positioned to pursue growth opportunities to benefit our sport
His on the road to developing a yes we can culture needs a pit stop and service to say the
least. Actions speak louder than words, and some action would be timely.
There isnt much more we can do without a major backing or support from you. Our volunteers
and sponsors deserve a lot better and will need your full support and encouragement to be a
part of rebuilding something great.
We are fast running out of bullets and time and as an investor in CAMS and the sport you have a
say and should exercise your right.
Has the sports management done the best for your investment?
Has ORRInc achieved its goals and targets?
Should a sponsored television package be let go so the hard questions do not need to be
answered and reputations remain intact?
Should the competitors have been consulted in this process?
Has the CAMS board assessed the situation correctly and given Off Road the correct
decision and support to move ahead 2012 and beyond?
We feel far from supported and the lack of respect shown to our events staff, sponsors
and volunteers has not gone unnoticed by many. WE WILL NEED A SIGNIFICANT
CHANGE IN ATTITUDE BY THE BOARD AND THE COMMISSION A TO REGAIN THE
MOMENTUM TO GET THE AORC BACK ON TRACK. YOUR INTERVENTION IS NOW
REQUIRED.
TIME TO FIND A VOICE AND ACT......
Hyden 450
Finke Desert Race
Flinders 450

Is it just me or does it seem ORRinc is letting its political agenda ruin our great sport?

Hi Simpson,

The events wanted the deal to include some sort of targets for ORRInc. The events have always been doing their own deals or the races would not exist, they just needed to have some level of protection and input with the ORRInc contract. At the closing date for contracts all 5 2011 events had not signed - pretty key indicator that it needed some work. The events have never been informed of any deal that ORRInc was trying to get.

Quite frankly it does not matter who has what job as long as the job gets done. I don't think Mr Rogers or Mr French wouldn't be too keen on your suggested career path! 

-- Edited by tumbleweed on Friday 13th of January 2012 10:03:13 PM

Fair coment Jeremy it dosn't sound like an easy fix i would be happy for you to take the job you seem to make sense most of the time. I know it dosn't help WDR but this could spur on other events to look at filling the vacant spots for next year and create a bigger better series. You cant make an omlete without busting a few eggs.

Its said that National events cost 200k to run can you tell me is there any money left over after all expences are paid at your event for the following year ?

Gary, from my minor experience, 200k for an event IS feasible, I know most AORC rounds cost over 100k, and usually only leave a few $k remaining. Sponsors are far more important than most of us racers realise.

THIS IS 'MY' OPINION ONLY!!!!
Something that surprises me is the huge cost gap between a state level race to a national, is the insurance/CAMS costs really justified? It is pretty much the same risk etc! To run a state level race is so much easier, but should CAMS be allowing this? Why? ( I hope some 'bean counter' from cams doesn't read this!)

I have seen parts of 2011 orrinc contract.....they simply are un-signable....and thats all there is to it. I know answers were not forthcoming! I am also aware that we ran a national series without contracts. Its obvious that ORRINC are wrong!
In 2012 there were a lot of potential races who wanted AORC rounds, but guess what, they did not sign.....this really says something about where we are at. There has been races trying to get rounds for years, and even in desperation, they did not sign.
Bring it back to the real racers and organisers with their hearts in the right place, does ORRINC even know what off road is all about?

All I can say is that the corporate world, and buggies dont mix!