2012 National Round Rumours

TOYOTAPOWR · In rehab

RE: 2012 National Round Rumours

tumbleweed · Forum Junkie

3 main reasons a national level event has a higher budget over state.

1) permit fees - but they are offset by increasing costs to the competitor and as such don't mean you lose money you just have a higher turnover of $
2)expectations and requirements for AORC regulations - A professional AORC requires certain standards to be upheld. Some of these cost money to comply with. This can include spectator commentary areas, medical requirements etc. The list is quite extensive and requires many extra volunteers or $ or both to comply properly
3) Increased expectations and requirements of sponsors and club members - a national round requires clubs to step it up a notch and all areas of event management can see some level of improvement each year. Some of these areas are not necessarily requirements of the AORC, but areas where individual clubs can see improvements for their race and ultimately the championship. For WDR this includes, printing, documentation, accommodation and flights for invited volunteers, hire cars so we reduce wear and tear on club members cars, and in our case paid for TV. In our case it is also infrastructure - you cant ask people to come to a national level event and not have adequate facilities. In some years our farmer has carted ALL of the water 140km round trip.

Every event will be different, but the stakes are higher - so the cost is higher

goanna · Forum Junkie

-- Edited by goanna on Thursday 19th of January 2012 08:22:40 PM

FOA Prolite · Rehab Dropout...

From OFFROADRACING.COM
Best news all year this is a good race, cant wait to go.

Sea Lake AORC Round 1 Thursday, 19 January 2012

The Sea Lake Off Road Club have received notification today that they will be Round 1 of the 2012 Australian Off Road Championship to be run on 8-10 June.

Sea Lake, in northern Victoria, will play host to the first round of the 2012 Australian Off Road Championship on the June long weekend (8th, 9th, 10th June).

The Sea Lake Off Road Club approached AORCom with an Expression of Interest to conduct a round of the Championship, which was subsequently considered and approved by the Commission. Sea Lake have built a reputation over many years for running successful Off Road events and will be a welcome addition to the Championship Calendar.

AORCom will not be including any further events in the 2012 Australian Off Road Championship, and as such, the Calendar is now finalised.

The 2012 Australian Off Road Championship Calendar will now be as follows:

Round 1: Sea Lake, Vic, 8th 10th June
Round 2: Goondiwindi, QLD, 4th - 5th August
Round 3: Millicent, SA, 8th 9th September
Round 4: Gatton, QLD, 10th - 11th November

Dragonfever · Regular Poster

Wow really same weekend as finke!! What's the go there???

FOA Prolite · Rehab Dropout...

Sealake has been on the same weekend for the last 30 odd years, it was dropped as national round due to the popularity the Finke race.

Dragonfever · Regular Poster

So now what are they going to do? Race te greatest race in Australia ?? Or the championship!! Bit of confusion there

SAracer · In rehab

Awesome news!! Sea Lake is one of the best events on the calendar. Great people, great track and great atmosphere... Can't wait!

KUSTERRACECO · In rehab

im with you luke i have fond memories of sea lake bring it on

Wolf · Rehab Dropout...

Will Tangles bring out the EH? :)

Pedroski · Forum Junkie

SAracer said it all, huge track 85km per lap, the best people who love the sport and so well organised.
Sea Lake had 66 competitors and Finke had 99 in 2011 on the same weekend. I guess in 2012 it will be massive without the Finke in competition.

TOYOTAPOWR · In rehab

Why won't the Finke be in competition?

People will still go to Finke especially the guys that built trucks to try and tame the whoops.

Blacky · In rehab

So who is going to Finke, who is going to AORC and who is disappointed that they can't do both ? What a mess this has become.

Dusteater · In rehab

Sealake and Finke have always been on the same weekend so running in both has never been a possibility but you are right, it is a mess.

TOYOTAPOWR · In rehab

Taken from Peter Kittle Motorsports facebook page

The decision by AORCom to run Round 1 of the Championship to clash with the iconic Finke Desert Race has effectively ruled the Peter Kittle Motor Sport team out of the 2012 Championship. After racing almost every race in the AORC for the last 11 years we will be racing Finke and not the Championship. This decision by o...rganisers has forced us to choose and we will not abandon the Finke Desert Race which has lifted Offroad Racing to a new level of exposure in Australia. We believe AORCom have made a bad decision and it will weaken the sport we all love. We also find it unbelivable that such a major decision has been made without any consultation with Drivers and or Teams

shelbycobra · Newbie

Nothing against the Sealake event, but i totally agree with PKM, support Finke Desert Race, at a time when we are looking to raise the profile of Off Road Racing we must support events that will put us in the publics eye, Finke gets national news coverage in TV, Press and on Radio.
Also have to agree that it is unbeleivable that teams and drivers had no consultation of such decisions.

Bring on 2013, hopefully with the so called "national championship" rounds only taking up 4 months of 2012 the organising for 2013 season can be dealt with in a much more professional way than this years fiasco.

Dusteater · In rehab

Most of the problem seemd to centre around ORRinc. Maybe those concerned competitors should contact ORRinc to get their version of the problem. There has been alot of talk about contracts so how about getting a contract posted here for all to see. An explanation of the details, particularly the ones causing problems would also help everyone understand where the drama lies.

Patrol842 · Forum Addict

Dusteater wrote:
Most of the problem seemd to centre around ORRinc. Maybe those concerned competitors should contact ORRinc to get their version of the problem. There has been alot of talk about contracts so how about getting a contract posted here for all to see. An explanation of the details, particularly the ones causing problems would also help everyone understand where the drama lies.

I submitted the following message to the people concerned via CAMS 11 days ago and have received no response beyond acknowledgement that it was being forwarded to the right people:

"We've heard the side of the story from the three events who refused to sign.

In the interests of killing rumour and speculation I would like to see the following information released:

1: A copy of this ORRinc contract that apparently keeps getting handed back out with new dates on it.

2: correspondence regarding club/event dissatisfaction and suggestions for improvements to the above contract and minutes/records from discussions reviewing this feedback.

3: A sequence of events from the point of view of ORRinc. They have the right of reply, if they chose not to exercise that it will be a PR disaster for them.

4: any form of charter / statement of intent / list of duties / contract for ORRinc and AORC board. - What are they supposed to be doing - what are others supposed to be doing for them.

5: what the AORC board wants is ordinary members to do in the short term - clearly the status quo is unacceptable. We've been asked to stop speculating and spreading rumours and been given only a couple of semi-official statements. We will not sit back and do nothing when things are falling apart.

6: explain the proper process for submitting suggestions on how we want things to be run.
I would suggest forming an advisory board of experienced License holders who have competed in at least 2 AORC seasons. present them with all of the information and get them to develop a variety of options to be put into a survey for all CAMS Offroad license holders to determine how the AORC will be run in 2013.

Until this information is provided to members all we can do it bitch. Please give us the ability to do something constructive. "

-- Edited by Patrol842 on Monday 23rd of January 2012 07:00:59 PM

-- Edited by Patrol842 on Monday 23rd of January 2012 07:02:00 PM

tumbleweed · Forum Junkie

In my opinion - All of the issues could have been negotiated around with communication.

I believe the calendar would have been resolved if AORCom had not chosen to make the contracts and/or conditions that were rejected by all 2011 organisers a requirement for running a 2012 AORC. What little return correspondence we have from ORRInc and/or AORCom in my opinion clearly indicates a sign or we are happy for you to leave mentality that just doesn't work when you are dealing with volunteers who put their entire business, personal, racing lives and property on hold to run an AORC. They are gold and the glue holding this together and without them you have this mess. I believe who ever handles the commercial rights of the AORC should make the organisers job easier - not harder.

I am glad there are others who have filled the void and wish them well. On one hand I am disappointed that competitors are now forced to choose, but on the other it shows a clear indication of what value the AORC placed on the events in the first place and how short sighted some have become for 2013 and beyond.

Patrol842 · Forum Addict

here's some communication:
http://www.speedcafe.com/2012/01/22/competitors-stunned-by-off-road-date-clash/

It's about time the AORCom did some communicating too.

-- Edited by Patrol842 on Monday 23rd of January 2012 07:29:47 PM

-- Edited by Patrol842 on Monday 23rd of January 2012 07:30:33 PM

jones off road · Rehab Dropout...

One thing I have found out, (and I have been saying some incorrect things about in previous posts), is that ORRINC are probably not the main ones to blame. I now have a 'little' understanding of how the system worked, and most of the blame can be attributed to AORCOM.
Not so much for poor decisions, but mostly for lack of communication, that resulted in poor decisions!

Dusteater · In rehab

Thanks Mike. As previously indicated by many. Its the lack of communication that is exacerbating the problem.

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

Wow, great article from the "speed" cafe. Talk about re writing history. That would of course be the same "new' race at Sea Lake thats been happening on the Queens Birthday weekend for well over thirty years. The same race that was always a round of the national championship untill the Finke organisers bid against it. It should also be noted that Sea Lake has often had the same number of entries or even more than the Finke for a race that was only a state round. Great race, great track, great people, great decision. Oh & btw, did anyone really expect the Peter Kittle Motorsport Team to come to Sea Lake when their local event is on the same weekend, I think not. A bit of grandstanding to say the least.

tumbleweed · Forum Junkie

Stingray, I agree the article is not accurate about sea lake being 'new' but to suggest that Kittle motorsports opinion doesn't carry some weight is over the top. This is not just about Finke - They are saying they wont run the championship because of the clash - so Gundy, Pines and Gatton are now directly affected. I wonder how they feel about that as entry numbers effect their events financial viability.

Stingray 2212 · Rehab Dropout...

So perhaps Kittle Motorsport should be blaming the Finke organisers for not signing the contract. All the talk has been about the events that didnt sign, clearly four events didn't see the contract conditions as that bad, perhaps they didn't agree fully with the terms & conditions but for the good of the sport they signed.

Blacky · In rehab

Stingray 2212 wrote:
but for the good of the sport they signed.

Signing something "for the good of the sport" that is seen as being not good for the sport is not good for the sport.

How many years is this fiasco going to take our sport backwards and undo the hard work that many have put in for so long?

spaz · In rehab

I think it is time for people to concentrate more on getting things sorted for next year instead of trying to find someone to blame for this sh-tfight. This year is going to be what it is and hopefully that will be a transition year where things can be made better than ever for next year. Everyone has a lot of money tied up in this sport and it needs to be handled a lot more professionally to continue on with it's growth over the past couple of years. I fully agree with Mike's (patrol 842) words and would ask him to put up the Cams contact details he sent his letter to and suggest we all send in something similar and get something happening now on fixing our sport. I fully agree with him on the need for an independant committee to sort through all the BS and find the problems and then work on a solution whilst keeping us all informed. I would also suggest finding a means of communication with all our members as this is one of the major problems we have. I can only suggest the trial of class representatives. Having already had experience with trying to find contacts of all class members, without Cams assistance, i can tell you it is a major headache but now that i have that info everyone can be contacted at the press of a button. This was suggested to the right people a year or so ago and i was told it was a great idea and we'll look into it. Nothing done of course.
As people can see there is a division occurring in our sport that could greatly affect everyone and needs to be sorted quickly.
Has anyone else got idea's or a plan of action??
Just my 2 cents!
Gavin

tumbleweed · Forum Junkie

Lamby - did they discuss the Sea Lake/Finke calendar issue with you and the other clubs before making a decision?

-- Edited by tumbleweed on Tuesday 24th of January 2012 05:16:51 PM

Patrol842 · Forum Addict

Minutes are always released, just not very promptly sometimes.
AORCom minutes are posted here: http://www.cams.com.au/en/Sport/Minutes/National.aspx
At the bottom of the page is a link to the archived minutes.
It might be worth a read - It's good to make sure you're right before you get angry.

Also in my post which was blocked as spam was a copy and paste of the purpose of the AORCom

-- Edited by Patrol842 on Tuesday 24th of January 2012 05:18:02 PM

-- Edited by Patrol842 on Tuesday 24th of January 2012 05:19:28 PM

Peter Kittle MotorSport · Newbie

The article on Speed Cafe was written without the teams knowledge. While the article quotes Peter Kittle, his comments are simply copied and pasted from the teams Facebook page. The original comment made by the team on Facebook, which can be found earlier in this thread posted by TOYOTAPOWR, was simply a way of giving a reason for what we were doing this year to the people interested in what we do, that is the people subscribed to the team on Facebook.

We are not grand standing when we say we will be doing the Finke Desert Race at the expense of the whole 2012 Championship. Finke may be our spiritual home race, but as the teams home base is now in Adelaide, it would be a lot cheaper and a lot less travel to head to Sea Lake. We also are not exaggerating when we say that we get more exposure from doing badly at Finke than we get from winning the Championship. While some may say that exposure is evil and is wrecking the sport, we disagree as exposure attracts spectators/ fans which attracts sponsorship, which helps us to continue to do what we love.

The team understands that Sea Lake has been around a long time and respects its position on the Off Road Calendar, however with the regard and the esteem that most racers hold for Finke, if it is not part of the Championship it should not have to compete with a National on the same weekend, as it will force people to do the same as us and choose between the National Championship and the prestigious Finke Desert Race.

Having a National event on the same weekend as Finke is like the V8 Supercars having a championship round in Tasmania on Bathurst weekend. Last year at Finke there were 99 car entries (which no doubt will be down in 2012 as a result of scheduling). These 99 vehicles had the opportunity to show themselves, their vehicles and their sponsors off to the 510 motorbike competitors (not to mention their crews- even if each rider only bought 1 person in support, which they don't, that is over 1000 potential new fans to a different form of desert racing than they are used to), not to mention the estimated 15,000 spectators that camp along the track to watch the trucks, buggies and others, as well as the 2,000-3,000 that buy admission to the Start/ Finish.

To recap, the main reason for the original post on Facebook was to explain what we were doing for 2012, and why. There is no doubt that we are disappointed with the way the scheduling has happened, and with the response we have received from AORCom/ CAMS (which is none) in regards to questions posed about the process in which the rounds were selected.