Agree with all that. Only other thing I would do is raise pro lite to four litre natural or turbo (max 2.2). This would allow the very popular & easy (& cheap) to get Holden commodore V6.
One or two seat for all buggy classes, if only one seat it must be in the middle.
-- Edited by Stingray 2212 on Thursday 25th of July 2013 02:40:43 PM
Coming from a tin tip driver, I would like to see the 4wd classes modified to follow how the 2wd classes run. I think production 4wd moved to performance 4wd, allows for motor changes etc, must run factory body etc. and then extreme 4wd like extreme 2wd, space frame chassis etc.
"H" pattern, four speed gearbox would mean motorbike engine vehicles were not suitable. Of course it could be done but I don't think there would be much advantage.
Also all 1650 cars, 1 or 2 seat must have a beam front end. Those two simple rules should mean that a motorbike engine car would have no real advantage.
-- Edited by Stingray 2212 on Friday 26th of July 2013 07:31:51 AM
I think we should leave prolite alone, it works great the way it is and is only getting bigger, the formula works.
If you want to get the old cars back out how about a class that has to have production car gearbox ( ie: vw, Reno or Porsche ) beam front end coils allowed but no bypass shocks. Single or twin seater. That way the gearbox is the limiting factor.
As for super 1650 if you want to allow single seaters into it then there needs to be some way of stopping light weight motorbike engined buggies in as one like Phil (awesome car) will destroy the class as even in prolite it's fast and an outright contender same as the alumi craft from Tasmania ( I think), maybe no sequential gearbox's for single seaters only to make up for the weight difference. but that's just my thoughts
personally I wouldn't allow single seat in 1650 , but in the other classes ,
when the class 9 cars were built they were mostly built to race against class 1 cars of the time with engines bigger than 1650 and which fit into a pro lite or 2.5 class structure
i'd leave the 3.5 ltr limit on pro lite , not to sure about allowing forced induction though
a production car gearbox class is a tricky one , after market internals , case mods , ect ect
I was thinking perhaps the classes should be based the US classes , class 10 for eg ,
2.5 ltr for 2 seat and 2.0lr for single seat for eg
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were we're goin we dont need roads.
it's not the speed of life that scares me, it's the sudden stop at the end ,
though it wouldn't be necessary as i thought there already is a rule in place saying if there was less than a certain number they could be run with the 1650's , though this could only be a state rule where i live ,
a worked g13b will keep with a stock 20 valve
out of curiosity how many 1300's are running around the country ? in wa there are 0
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were we're goin we dont need roads.
it's not the speed of life that scares me, it's the sudden stop at the end ,
how about allowing extreme 4wd to run 4wd buggys that dont need to resemble a production car as that would open a lot of options for new cars to come from the uk as well. it is call extreme so it you want a production looking car run in the production class.
The old class 2 was changed from 2 litre to 1650, which made all 2 litres uncompetitive in prolite.
There are not a lot of class 3 and they are still competitive against the 1650 cars as proof by Dean Williams (357)who would have been 4th in 1650 class at Sea Lake in a beam car.
I still believe the biggest change should be some sort of gearbox, beam suspension and engine size class and a shuffle of engine capacities to allow the 3.8 holden V6 in prolite as they are common, cheap and have a mass of performance technology.
Class 2 (super 1650) has always been a 1600cc class, was never a 2lt class, I know it is good debating but why cant we just leave it as it is, most classes are well supported now, class 3 is still a bit low but had 7 at Sea Lake, this would be the ideal starters class but most new guys seem to have enough money to go straight into Pro Lite or Pro and Extreme classes and good on them it the thrill of the speed, I would if I could.
I battle to keep my car going as it is let alone having to change everything again and the rule makers that be manage to come up with new ways to spend our money for us each year. All the changes going back a few of years ago made me quit the sport for a couple of years In frustration and take my son Go Karting but have now since returned.
Agree with all that. Only other thing I would do is raise pro lite to four litre natural or turbo (max 2.2). This would allow the very popular & easy (& cheap) to get Holden commodore V6.
One or two seat for all buggy classes, if only one seat it must be in the middle.
-- Edited by Stingray 2212 on Thursday 25th of July 2013 02:40:43 PM
don't agree with the seat in the middle as a rule ! because a single seat buggy is not user friendly , you don't have the option to put in a seat for family friends or sponsors rides etc . it is a very selfish race car set up ! share the enjoyment !!! , but hey just my opinion
Class 2 (super 1650) has always been a 1600cc class, was never a 2lt class, I know it is good debating but why cant we just leave it as it is, most classes are well supported now, class 3 is still a bit low but had 7 at Sea Lake, this would be the ideal starters class but most new guys seem to have enough money to go straight into Pro Lite or Pro and Extreme classes and good on them it the thrill of the speed, I would if I could.
I battle to keep my car going as it is let alone having to change everything again and the rule makers that be manage to come up with new ways to spend our money for us each year. All the changes going back a few of years ago made me quit the sport for a couple of years In frustration and take my son Go Karting but have now since returned.
Just my thoughts.
well said sandman !!!! my thoughts as well , its hard these days to get money , even harder to find toy money , I enjoy racing but have not been able to , because family first etc etc mortgage cost of living blah blah , its ok for the rich and famous but why just cater for them there is more budget racers in our sport than there is the rich and famous ,
Well i have just about finnished a rebuild on my class 3,cost of rebuild in excess of $10000. Why? Because i like the class,it is a very affordle class to run in there are other people out there that are doing the same... if you go and change the classes do you think that i for 1 would be changing the car around again... i would think not , so would i sell it no as who would want to buy a car that doesnt have a class... stingray i beleive that you havent raced your car since the bi annual inspections came in....i sure bet you would love to be out there racing it.instead of looking at it in the shed....if you want to encourage more people out of the sheds then leave things as they are, and just encourage your mates with an offer of help to get their cars back on the track,,, AS THEY ARE without having to spend mega dollars every time someone decides that it is a good to change things around.....
You are correct Brian, I havn't raced my car since the biennial inspections. I don't see what that has to do with this. Many peoples cars have been made uncompetitive by a lack of simple restrictions over the years. To simply base classes on engine capacity in my opinion is absurd. I have always supported a restricted class & this is just the latest version. My belief is that a class with very simple restrictions will allow those that have been left behind in the "free for all" that has existed for way too long, somewhere that they can again be competitive & therefore be interested again. I am not the one that says class three should be scrapped but you have to admit a great majority of your fellow competitors have abandoned the class. You could still run your class three in the restricted class (so long as it complied with the rules), I don't see what your issue is. Your argument of having to spend "mega dollars" isn't correct, most class threes run either 1800 or 2 litre kombi boxes, a change of ratios would be suitable for a 1650. A stock 20 valve is fairly cheap & most management systems can be changed to suit a different engine, no real difference to when they outlawed avgas & we had to get more modern engines. What this restricted class means is a class that you can be sure won't have any major changes into the future. If that appeals to you then good, if it doesn't, so be it.
I would like to comment, even with a limited understanding as I am only a newbee, however it seems that the classes as they stand work well and those involved currently have invested much time and money to conform with the class requirements, to be competitive as far as there budget allows.However, there is an opportunity to develop a new class which may get many of the older, currently uncompetitive beam cars back on the track, with little work to be competitive in a new class. As previously suggested 2.5 ltr- 2 seater, 2 ltr- single seat beam cars only, no bypass shocks, H pattern production g/box. I would be first to register for such a class.(Limited budget but strong desire to be out there). Make some room for the older cars gathering dust and those wanting lower budget entry level cars, Just my opinion, but would like to be out there.
guys a little debate is always good, but we don't wont to end up like the yanks with 100 different classes, the classes are set out pretty good to suit a wide range of budgets, if people aren't racing its because times are tough and off road is getting more expensive in general, and if your class doesn't suit you go up a class or two. And whats wrong with beam cars there not that out dated I qualified one on pole at a state round this year , on a pretty restricted budget, and I do agree with making racing more affordable and the powers that be should look at that across the board, as it is our older cars and us budget racers that make up the majority of the field, affordability to go racing is the key I think , because with out each other we don't have our awesome sport off road.
Just my two cents again.
I strongly believe there is the desire for a restricted class within off road racing not just based solely on engine capacity.
The reason I believe there is a need for this class is due to budget constraints as I have a family of four teenage girls and I also love to race cars.
The costs involved in trying to compete at the pointy end are impractical to the vast majority of us so why not create a class that doesn't require any real extra cost just a simple reclassification based on four things.
Engine size (2.5 litre max?????)
Production gearbox (Kombi, Porche, UN5 or similar with whatever internals, and no race bred stuff like AGB boxes)
No by-pass shocks
Beam front end.
My experience in other motor sports like speedway is that too many complicated and hard to monitor restrictions cause massive headaches.
This class will not cost anyone anything extra to compete.
The only reason I mentioned the class 3 amalgamating with 1650 is that I believe off road racing has enough class types and will dilute the sport too much for the competitor numbers the sport has currently, so creating a different class may require something like this suggestion.
Definitely only an opinion and by all means tell me I am wrong.
There are enough classes already. Go out and race for the love of racing and socialising with other people who love racing.
The winners only get a $5 plastic trophy anyway.
At least you would be guaranteed a $5 plastic trophy.
I don't think with my lack of driving skill it would matter.
I am definitely in it for the love of racing.
why does it matter if you think your not going to win your class when you go to an event, I race for the love of it, I know that usually when I race im not going to win my class unless the better cars have issues but I love being out there pushing my car to its limits and where I finish doesn't matter, so get your car out of the shed put it on the track and have some fun in whatever class it may be, a lot of the fun is socializing around the camp fire anyway and you certainly don't need a 100k vehicle to do that!
I've been interested in competing for a while now and have looked closely at the classes to see how they work and what costs are involved. (I come from a rally background where there has been many changes over the years to keep the sport relevant and affordable with many restricted or one make classes - even major changes at the top of the sport moving away from turbo 4wd. They havent all worked but at least rallying continues to try and improve and find ways to remain popular, affordable and exciting at the pointy end)
My observations are that the current entry class, Sportsman would be much more appealing if single seat was an option and that 1650 is starting to get very expensive with a-arms, bigger HP and more expensive transaxles to be competitive.
I think there has been some good suggestions in the thread. My suggestion is as follows:
1. Amend Sportsman by allowing single seat <1330cc and two seater <1650cc. In addition only allow beam front end and h pattern production based (VW, etc.) box. No other restrictions to keep it simple. Due to gearbox shift type, motorcycle powered buggies would therefore not be eligible. I am conflicted about them as they could be a great way to rejevenate the sport. Either way they would be eligible for the next class if two seater and Prolite if single seater;
2. Amend Super 1650 to increase capacity only - "Super 2000 or maybe even Super 2500" - buggies not exceeding 2000cc (or 2500cc?) inclusive of any turbo/supercharging, rotary and/or diesel correction factors. 2 seater.
3. Leave Prolite alone (<3500cc naturally aspirated, one or two seater)
4. Pro class, Extreme 2wd and 4wd - wow they are getting crazy fast and expensive. My two cents - drop the capacity to 5000cc and introduce some of the same technical rules e.g. rev limit as V8 Supercar. At least there are plenty of 5lt supercar engines, knowledge, technology about and the more the top classes are aligned with the most popular motorsport in our country the better for all sorts of reasons - equipment cost, promotional opportunities etc. etc.
Cheers.
-- Edited by Flagg on Friday 13th of December 2013 12:16:19 PM
I have just finished exchanging my motor in my buggy It was running a 4age corolla motor I have just fitted a 4azge (supercharged motor) to it what class will I be running in yet to race this buggy has been a long time comming not sure which class id be in any help ?
